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Follow us on twitterThe changes to the forum, a clarification of earlier.
16th August 2009 20:12 | by Gavin Sibley
As our member numbers have grown over the last week or so the party has reached the point where we can provide the benefits of membership we promised. Previously policy discussion was publicly available to comment on but now detailed policy discussion will be restricted to the members of the party. Members can now take their role in help shape the party as we go forward.
Non-members aren't going to be left out of the loop, you're the people we're trying to convince to vote for us! Regular summaries etc will become public as policy is finalised.
Luckily it isn't hard to become a Pirate Party UK member so you can easily join in on the debate.
Right now in a transitional stage general chat and regional sub forums are staying public. Over the next week or so we'll be rolling out some stuff to try and help organise regional parties, and a new site design at that! So the community that has started building up in this place isn't going anywhere any time soon.
One issue that has come up is the case of moderation. I hope everyone is quite content with the situation of us setting up a very active moderation team to clear the forums of any abusive / very questionable content, the situation is that those who are being moderated are trying to say we are censoring them. The party believes fully in free speech, however we have no obligation to host every message on our site and our responsibility is to all users to keep this place functional, especially when this website reflects on us as a party.
You will start to see these changes in a few days if all goes well, just look at how far we've come in a week to see how quickly the party is taking shape.
Non-members aren't going to be left out of the loop, you're the people we're trying to convince to vote for us! Regular summaries etc will become public as policy is finalised.
Luckily it isn't hard to become a Pirate Party UK member so you can easily join in on the debate.
Right now in a transitional stage general chat and regional sub forums are staying public. Over the next week or so we'll be rolling out some stuff to try and help organise regional parties, and a new site design at that! So the community that has started building up in this place isn't going anywhere any time soon.
One issue that has come up is the case of moderation. I hope everyone is quite content with the situation of us setting up a very active moderation team to clear the forums of any abusive / very questionable content, the situation is that those who are being moderated are trying to say we are censoring them. The party believes fully in free speech, however we have no obligation to host every message on our site and our responsibility is to all users to keep this place functional, especially when this website reflects on us as a party.
You will start to see these changes in a few days if all goes well, just look at how far we've come in a week to see how quickly the party is taking shape.
12 comments
17th August 2009 21:22 by 23narchy
Sounds like the right decision to me.
17th August 2009 22:04 by mabsark
"The party believes fully in free speech, however we have no obligation to host every message on our site and our responsibility is to all users to keep this place functional, especially when this website reflects on us as a party."
"Ensure that everyone has real freedom of speech and real freedom to enjoy and participate in our shared culture."
These two statements are completely contradictory. If you want run on a policy of real free speech, then you DO have an obligation to host every message, no matter if they are illegal, reflect badly on the party, or are just plain crazy.
You've lost my support for the time being. Sorry guys but you're being hypocrites.
18th August 2009 10:46 by IAmAI
I think you completely miss the point of free speech. The real threats to free speech come from centralised governments who want to restrict the expression of certain ideas regardless of its form, or from organisations/individuals who abuse copyright law to coerce websites into remove expressions simply because they "don't like" what's said. However, it's a site owner's prerogative to do what they like with their site and that's how it should be. Can you imagine if they were forced to keep every message that was posted regardless of its nature? How could they deal with spam or libel? How could they enforce rules/terms of use? What if they couldn't afford to page hosting fees anymore? Would you insist that they should continue to fund the site into bankruptcy just for the sake of some messages? (Continued in next post...)
18th August 2009 10:46 by IAmAI
(Continued from previous post) Clearly your idea of 'free speech' is simply impractical. If you don't like this you can always start your own site where you can express what you want, which is a freedom you should always have and that I'm sure the PPUK will fight for if it is ever threatened.
19th August 2009 02:05 by Philip Hunt
mabsark: "If you want run on a policy of real free speech, then you DO have an obligation to host every message, no matter if they are illegal, reflect badly on the party, or are just plain crazy."
Hi mabsark, do you have a mobile phone? I'd like to borrow it and send messages on it that're illegal, reflect badly on you, and are just plain crazy. I'd also like to do the same using your internet account.
What's that, you disagree? Then you're a hypocrite.
17th August 2009 22:11 by John McKeown
"Ensure that everyone has real freedom of speech and real freedom to enjoy and participate in our shared culture."
This is an ideal that the party aspires to, but we have to be realistic until we have achieved that ideal instead of acting like lambs to the political slaughter.
17th August 2009 22:29 by 23narchy
I don't think it's really sensible to say that because PPUK supports the right to free speech there is an obligation to allow any and everyone to post what they like on the forums. That sounds like faulty logic to me...
It's not censorship to remove/moderate off-topic posts on a forum with a particular remit.
17th August 2009 22:36 by rakiru
@mabsark "These two statements are completely contradictory. If you want run on a policy of real free speech, then you DO have an obligation to host every message, no matter if they are illegal, reflect badly on the party, or are just plain crazy. You've lost my support for the time being. Sorry guys but you're being hypocrites."
You only get the right of free speech provided it does not infringe on anyone else's rights, and PPUK here have the right to choose what is hosted on their website. Plus, i'd rather not have viagra adverts (happens a lot on forums; links to drugs, porn, etc) all around the forum...
17th August 2009 22:38 by steffman
If the forum was a free for all (regarding the freedom of speech) then there would be nothing stopping people just coming in, swearing everywhere, posting complete nonsense everywhere. Not only would this make the party look ridiculous, but it would severely limit the functionality of the forum. How are the people in charge going to be able to pick up on real points and topics raised if every other thread is full of talk about random subjects or ridiculous opinions based entirely on fiction?
Obviously you could argue the technicality of the hypocrisy, but in practice, it won't be anything like that, they aren't going to stop people sharing their views or anything, just cut down on the spam and swearing.
I entirely agree that if they started silencing people with even slightly valid arguments then thats not on, but thats not whats going to be happening.
17th August 2009 23:08 by Philip Hunt
Gavin: "Luckily it isn't hard to become a Pirate Party UK member so you can easily join in on the debate."
Indeed it's a bargain at only 10 quid a year. (£2 if you're under 21).
18th August 2009 01:15 by WilliamFS
I am really pleased with the recent changes to the forum and the concerted effort of the party to mantain focus and channel energies towards the reasons it came into being.
24th August 2009 11:24 by sipos
Can you clarify under what circumstances you plan on removing posts?
Clearly there is nothing wrong with removing posts which are obviously off topic spam or trolls or things which are possibly illegal for you to host. I think that the terms of what is acceptable, and what is not, need to be clear to everyone.
There is nothing wrong with removing things that definitely fall into the categories above, as long as you are transparent about it. Ideally, there would be some way for everyone to see what is removed from the forum (perhaps it could still be hosted but removed from the thread of the discussion and placed in a special thread with a disclaimer - that way nobody can accuse you of censorship)