Social unrest, inequality and the internet

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Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby matt4 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:14 am

After the events of August last year it's clear their is inequality in the country. In my opinion the gap is widening.

The social unrest experienced was put down to mainly criminal behavior by individuals (and has been swept under the rug). The only change we see now in the run up to the Olympics in London are more police in the streets to qwell any type of unrest or even peaceful protest maybe ;)

Just like the riots in Tottenham in the 1980's it feels like very little will be learned. Society will not change. When people in power discuss reading facebook/twitter messages when unrest occurs it creates another division by those in power and the people. The people want to be empowered.

Mistrust of the police, governmental services, even politicians is at a high.
Just looking in the house of commons it's not hard to see why. The politicians don't represent this country. The people you see are all of one race (bar a few) and middle/upper class! Many are out of touch with reality.

What part does the Internet play in this social revolution?

My question is why don't people take part in this social revolution? To drive change. Frustration is there. As a nation 90% of us seem comfortable to moan and let other people write laws for us. Is it a case that we can't see things are being eroded in front of our eyes?

I'm waffling on.. probably spoke some rubbish and missed some bits but it's late! 8-)
Economic growth = Only benefits the few, Economic Equality = Happy people :)
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Re: Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby borgs8472 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:18 pm

Just like the riots in Tottenham in the 1980's it feels like very little will be learned. Society will not change

Why do you say that?
When people in power discuss reading facebook/twitter messages when unrest occurs it creates another division by those in power and the people

Social media (and also BBM) are new communication paradigms which left the emergency services unprepared when used to support and provoke unrest.

The communications privacy arms race is continuing as it always has, I like to hope that the sort of people who rioted are the incapable of utilising the latest privacy methods but that could just be wishful thinking on my part. I would be interested in hearing hearing how use of new media to instigate rioting is being 'empowered', and to what ends.
Mistrust of the police, governmental services, even politicians is at a high.

Citation needed.
The politicians don't represent this country.

They represent the largest voting bloc in their constituency, as it our electoral system.
My question is why don't people take part in this social revolution?

Which social revolution are you referring to?
Is it a case that we can't see things are being eroded in front of our eyes?

A poor turn of phrase 'in front of our eyes' because censorship and privacy legislation has the exact sort of effects that you can't see directly.

I think the point you were trying to make is can this political climate be harnessed to affect change towards policies like ours - and the answer is of course, maybe!
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Re: Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby JaseHargreaves » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:59 pm

borgs8472 wrote:
The politicians don't represent this country.

They represent the largest voting bloc in their constituency, as it our electoral system.


But I'm not so sure. I voted for a politco who I thought would be the closest match to one believing in small government and personal freedom. Turns out I was wrong, he won't even answer my questions directly (typical and us unsurprising as you can imagine I suppose).

So I joined here and also consider standing as an independent candidate because party politicans almost always tow the party line, regardless of what they say to you in their constituency. An independent doesn't need to do that, what you vote for is what you get.
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Re: Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby matt4 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:10 pm

Sorry, For the very late reply. Been so busy with work and studying!

Just like the riots in Tottenham in the 1980's it feels like very little will be learned. Society will not change

Why do you say that?


History and what is happening now. Go visit these places and you will see.
The only thing that was learnt after those riots was the Broadwater farm estate needed redeveloping which it got. Subsequently crime is literally nil there. Socially policing hasn't changed in this area at all. In 2009 they had armed police on the estate for no real reason. As I said before crime is pretty much non-existent there now.

Mistrust of the police, governmental services, even politicians is at a high.

Citation needed.


I didn't mean for a citation to be needed to the above.
However for examples look at the Ian Tomlinson case, the never ending phone hacking scandal, USB sticks that were repeatedly being lost a few years back by HMRC. It's not exactly instilling confidence that those "elected" at the top can do their job correctly.

The politicians don't represent this country.

They represent the largest voting bloc in their constituency, as it our electoral system.


The system isn't working correctly and favors a certain few. I want to mention this in another thread I think.

I'll come back to your last two points.

But I'm not so sure. I voted for a politco who I thought would be the closest match to one believing in small government and personal freedom. Turns out I was wrong, he won't even answer my questions directly (typical and us unsurprising as you can imagine I suppose).


I don't know if it was somewhere in this forum (can't find it) or elsewhere. Would you mind letting me know who and where? Just out of curiosity :P

Thanks guys
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Re: Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby borgs8472 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:29 pm

matt4 wrote:Society will not change

I'm sorry but if the only point on this issue to be made is that that is how things are, it doesn't exactly lend itself to discussion of what policies to support or oppose do it? Unless the point is that rioting is somehow an indivisable part of society, not the point you were trying to make I expect.

Mistrust of the police, governmental services, even politicians is at a high.

Citation needed.

I didn't mean for a citation to be needed to the above.

One of the problems the pirate party faces is that people are highly content with their lot and by extension their government. Suggesting that this is not the case is not supported by people's voting behaviour (centrist, mainstream issues). That's why I'd caution against sweeping statements implying a silent majority mistrust the government and its intuitions. That's why I asked you defend this statement.

The politicians don't represent this country.

They represent the largest voting bloc in their constituency, as it our electoral system.

The system isn't working correctly and favors a certain few. I want to mention this in another thread I think.

It favours the politicians, unsurprisingly. But is your focus electerol reform (which we sometimes discuss) or something else? Please clarify :)
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Re: Social unrest, inequality and the internet

Postby matt4 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:16 am

Hello,

I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner (latest reply ever really sorry!). It's nice to see someone replaying to my made thoughts/debate waffle! :)

Let me address some of these points...

I'm sorry but if the only point on this issue to be made is that that is how things are, it doesn't exactly lend itself to discussion of what policies to support or oppose do it? Unless the point is that rioting is somehow an indivisable part of society, not the point you were trying to make I expect.


By such I mean, Society doesn't change for people in certain areas. This might not lend itself to the discussion but I will mention it. For decades many inner city areas have been neglected. As politicians from outside these areas try to win seats in constituencies making no end of promises. The only knowledge many have gained is when they were studying at Oxford/Cambridge (insert next Russell group university here). People in these areas feel that you can only make a change if your part of a political elite and many cases a social elite. Asking young and old in deprived areas whether politicians represent them would be a start.

In every unrest situation the focus appears to be on how to handle the situation when it's underway. Little focus is given on the causes. This time it was put down to Criminalism. Criminalising the citizens. Forgetting the fact the unrest broke from a peaceful protest where people demanded a senior officer of the Metropolitan police to come and speak with them. Having been there all day it seems they became criminals and decided to air their frustrations. The strange thing is a poor, misguided youth standing outside a police station hours till he picks up a brick is deemed a criminal and those in upper echelons of society can seemingly get away with anything. For some people society really does not change we know it does but it just takes years. Like the Arab spring did. Widening between those who have and those who don't is a terrible, terrible thing for any society to be going through.

Sorry, I kinda lept from one thing to the next there. It's late so forgive me :)

One of the problems the pirate party faces is that people are highly content with their lot and by extension their government. Suggesting that this is not the case is not supported by people's voting behaviour (centrist, mainstream issues). That's why I'd caution against sweeping statements implying a silent majority mistrust the government and its intuitions. That's why I asked you defend this statement.


Does that even need a citation? I can find one if needed. After numerous expenses scandals, cash for honours, police brutality claims. Things aren't what they once were that's for sure. People vote for the top three because they feel comfortable with them. Do you have any trust in the government? (You don't have to answer :) ) I certainly don't. Let us not even mention failed promises.

Despite me saying much. All I can find is U.S entries about distrust of the UK government. Maybe someone is watching over me.

It favours the politicians, unsurprisingly. But is your focus electerol reform (which we sometimes discuss) or something else? Please clarify :)


Yup, it is electoral reform and ethics. The culture on ethics in the house of commons is borderline banker level :)
Hope I've made sense! Thank you
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