The EU - for or against?

[ashdanchan]

I'm totally pro EU. I think it is also the best place as most that we will get votes. The EU is a good thing, and I believe it will help put Europe and UK forward.

The recent european elections in this country showed a sway toward anti-eu parties.

[EdmundRW]

I think particularly with regard to issues of copyright and filesharing, which are inherently borderless - a lot of real progress will need to come at an international level. We will find allies in Europe - not just because of the obvious (that there are other Pirate Parties already have seats!) but in general European sensibilities are more aligned with our core views.
The EU will have the scale and power to stand up to US corporate pressure in a way that any individual government may - There were rumours that the US effectively told Sweden they would face trade sanctions unless they clamped down on the Pirate Bay - that is not as possible if protections are made at the European level.
PR provides us a chance to get in and because we would not need to form a government in the European Parliament people are a lot more comfortable voting for a single issue party.

[nelsonsa]

I have to agree with Rancidpunk, being neutral on all things except our stated aims is the best way to draw in more people to the party. Rather than being partizan or "all things to all men", we should be saying that it doesn't matter what your left/right political stance is; but if free speech, reform and privacy scores highly on your priorities, then join us.

As for the specific issue of candidates standing for MEP positions whilst still holding a party-neutral position to the EU/EEC, I don't think we have a choice. We should use every possible means we have to get our message across, if that entails putting forward an MEP candidate, then fine. If we found out the UK was leaving the EU tomorrow, then we stick to pushing our agenda in the UK.

When even staunchly anti-european political groups have MEPs (ie BNP), then you have to wonder why we wouldn't.

[redjam13]

I support the EU in principle but not the way it is just now - I am completely against the Lisbon Treaty, almost all forms of privatisation and the undermining of worker's rights - all of which the EU seems to represent at the moment. In fact, in the last elections I voted for NO2EU.

However, I don't think the Pirate Party should adopt a "we are pro-EU no matter what" or "we hate the EU no matter what" attitude like most of the other parties.

[jonathonstaples]

Vastly pro-EU, though it's not without its flaws.

[M2Ys4U]

I am pro-EU but we need big, big reform in the EU, including voter accountability.

[robriley]

I am very much pro-eu, pro the adoption of the Euro currency, pro a European Army and pro a set EU wide minimum wage.

I dont think that Britain should be allowed to just opt out of the working time directive (WTD).

[forsterb01]

Alternatively, the EU as it has become since Maastricht is a great lumbering bear, slow, beauracratic and unable to react to the changing demands of the modern society. Those who see the EU as a form of integration of Europe along a sort of loose American style (just without the need to be one country) fail to realise that the EU is based on some of the most beauracratic states in the world, one of whom's main reaction to change is to strike until things go their way.

The ideal of the EU is fine, it is merely the implementation that is flawed. None of the EU states are exactly similar, and as such each requires a different set of laws to work by. The best way, it would seem, is for the EU parliament to be made to submit to the wills of national parliaments, having all of its legislation needing to be passed in national parliaments before becoming law in that state. That way, each state could decide whether or not a piece of legislation fits its circumstances, and adopt what is necessary for them.

So, to sum up, Free Trade & Travel = very good, Franco-German style beauracracy = bad. And is there a need to maintain a comission? We don't have unelected officials running member states (in fact in order to join this is not allowed) so why the EU?

[robriley]

We have an unelected head of state and an unelected house of lords.

I personally think that the EU will become a "country" in time, it will become a federation of member states, very similar to the USA (USE). Taking down man-made borders is a good thing.

[jez9999]

So, to sum up, Free Trade & Travel = very good, Franco-German style beauracracy = bad. And is there a need to maintain a comission? We don't have unelected officials running member states (in fact in order to join this is not allowed) so why the EU?

I'd go one further and ask what the need for the Council is. Why can't we have the unicameral, directly elected, PR parliament for the EU... and nothing else? Never an overall majority in it, should keep itself in check quite well, and won't have sensible laws vetoed by an elite.

[funkydiscoman]

Against - although I hold no objection to membership of the EEC, like Norway.
I believe in decentralisation of power. There is nothing stopping us talking to the Pirate Parties of other countries.
If a copyright treaty is put upon the public, without even their knowledge (think ACTA), how difficult do you think it will be to repeal (once the public realise what it actually is) now the Lisbon treaty has created a superstate? I also am opposed to any further powers for the IMF, Why give the corporate oligarchs even more power?

[borgs8472]

I'm pro EU as I understand the principle of federalism and approve of us having a constitution, which the UK does not have.

[samgower]

I'm pro EU, but not in its current state. I think that it developed from purely economic to political far too quickly. In the long run, a European "state", to use the term loosely, would be a good thing, but the transition needs to be gradual and clear. I consider myself politically knowledgeable, but despite all of efforts I just can't get my head around what half of the EU political system actually does and why we -- speaking as European, not a Briton -- need it.

In terms of PPUK, I'm all for it. It's there, so we may as well use it to its full advantage.

[scottishduck]

I'm all for the EU on the basis it was fully elected.

[rancidpunk]

I'm all for the EU on the basis it was fully elected.

Good point.

[ahdkaw]

I'm pro EU and pro World. Although I must admit the political organisations of the EU are a sad indictment on our once proud nations. The people of every nation are overall good people, but we have evil men (and women) standing in front of progress and stopping our planet becoming one. They have too much money and money runs things around here. Cannot make things fair, too much profit to be had from the herd.

[slymonkey]

I'm all for the EU on the basis it was fully elected.

I don't remember voting for President or Foreign Secretary, we have - marginally - more power at Westminster (where the vote power index rated my power at 0.2 votes per vote) as at the very least we know what we are voting for and the decisions aren't made in the back rooms by Germans and the French.

[Duke]

Bear in mind that that 0.2 votes per vote is for the House of Commons only - you have 0 votes for the House of Lords, and technically you have 0 votes for the UK Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary. Also remember that while we don't get deals made in back rooms by Germans or French, we get deals made in the back rooms of the Cabinet Office or Palace of Westminster by all sorts of strange people. While neither is particularly democratic, at least the EU is open about which bits aren't - and is a lot less weak-willed when it comes to media-driven policy.

[rjhanson292]

I'm pro-EU, I'm also pro-lisbon treaty, and further integration.

So am I. I also agree with what alot of other people are saying:

I'm all for the EU on the basis it was fully elected.

However I also believe that the pirate party taking a stance either side (particularly pro as a lot of UK people are strongly against) would be a massive mistake as it would alienate a huge number of potential members that need not be alienated.

[Duke]

For the record, the EU is *not* fully elected. The only part that is elected is the Parliament, which is only just breaking out of its original advisory role (it actually has some real power following Lisbon). The Commission, Council, Court of Orditors and Courts of Justice are all controlled by member states' governments either directly or indirectly.

I'm all for increasing the powers of the EP, though - and through it, the EU. Anyone who disagrees with "transferring power to a distant land" should note that we already do that with our Parliament in Westminster... or our local councils... or any sort of society with a managerial body.