Education Policy Suggestion

[JaseHargreaves]

Hi, I am suggesting this policy simply because I feel quite strongly about it. I did very badly at primary and secondary school but have done relatively ok in life. A lot of what I learned was a complete waste of time in that it was neither practical nor interesting (to me).

So here is a policy suggestion. Be interesting to debate this but overall I'd like to get an idea of the consensus (or as close as) of the party.

Schools

The Pirate Party seeks to modernize education in order to: improve the quality and purpose of learning; empower teachers; and allow schools to determine the nature of education to be taught on a student by student basis.

We will improve the quality of teaching by:
-Allowing schools to reward good teachers financially and deal with under-performing teachers likewise with a performance related pay system.
-Stopping funding for teacher trainees who do not have a lower second degree or better for academic subjects or relevant extensive personal and work experience for practical subjects.
-All Teachers will have to complete an assessment of their understanding of the subject of critical thinking and attend a one day course on the subject.

We will restore discipline by:
-Making it easier to search pupils for banned items.
-Making clear that teachers may use reasonable force or physical restraint to control disruptive pupils.
-Giving anonymity to teachers accused by pupils.
-Preventing appeals panels from sending excluded pupils back to their former schools.
-Streamline students into vocational qualifications where appropriate allowing an earlier leaving date for classroom studies providing an acceptable level of literacy and numeracy has been met.

We will raise standards in society as a whole by:
-Reviewing the National Curriculum with scientists, engineers, business leaders and teachers.
-Focusing the curriculum on subject content rather than prescribing how knowledge is acquired.
-Reinforce the core subjects of English and Mathematics and introduce another core subject of critical thinking, allowing students to make better decisions throughout their entire life.
-Allowing children to pursue education for education’s sake as well as allowing those not so inclined the valuable early release from academia in favour of state funded apprenticeships.

Any thoughts fellow pirates?

[liamreed]

As you are the first member of that working group (that i'm aware of) it might be in your best interests to contact campaigns@pirateparty.org.uk, with a subject of 'group leader' with an indication as to which group you wish to lead, as well as enough information to identify yourself as a party member.

[JaseHargreaves]

done

[JaseHargreaves]

A PM has made me realise I neglected to include artistic types in the curriculum consultation.

Reviewing the National Curriculum with Artists, Historians, Scientists, Engineers, Business Leaders and Teachers.

[lhsi]

-Allowing schools to reward good teachers financially and deal with under-performing teachers likewise with a performance related pay system.
-Stopping funding for teacher trainees who do not have a lower second degree or better for academic subjects or relevant extensive personal and work experience for practical subjects.

- I like the reward idea, but would need more convincing to the idea of making under performing teachers improve by using the threat of sanctions; adding more stress to someone already pretty stressed out can't help
- I think they already have needing a degree in the subject as a requirement (for secondary at least, primary teachers cover a lot more subject areas)

We will restore discipline by:
-Making it easier to search pupils for banned items.
-Making clear that teachers may use reasonable force or physical restraint to control disruptive pupils.
-Streamline students into vocational qualifications where appropriate allowing an earlier leaving date for classroom studies providing an acceptable level of literacy and numeracy has been met.

- I suspect there may be some disagreements with the searching within the party...

To end trivial stop and search, and targeted surveillance. We will review the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIPA) Act 2000.

https://www.pirateparty.org.uk/Civil_Liberties
- This would need very careful wording; you don't want teachers just smacking kids, but you don't want them completely powerless either
- I do like this idea; I'm quite academic, but not everyone is. I'd probably not do as well at vocational courses, in the same way that anyone who isn't great academically would do a lot better vocationally. I think there has been more work in this area in recent years, but it could be expanded upon more
- I've heard that a significant issue with discipline is that some parents expect schools to do all the disciplining (by the time kids go to school there has already been a massive period of time to affect discipline early on, so it is a lot harder for teachers to try and do it from no base). There is also the issue of lack of support from some parents (i.e. don't give a shit about how their kids are doing, and don't reinforce any punishment at home if their kid gets into trouble at school, lessening the impact of school discipline significantly)

We will raise standards in society as a whole by:
-Reviewing the National Curriculum with scientists, engineers, business leaders and teachers.
-Focusing the curriculum on subject content rather than prescribing how knowledge is acquired.
-Reinforce the core subjects of English and Mathematics and introduce another core subject of critical thinking, allowing students to make better decisions throughout their entire life.
-Allowing children to pursue education for education’s sake as well as allowing those not so inclined the valuable early release from academia in favour of state funded apprenticeships.

Any thoughts fellow pirates?

- I like the idea of involving scientists and engineers, but by getting business leaders involved you risk shaping the curriculum into just what is required by business. It all depends on what you want the ultimate outcome of education and school to be - should it be turning kids into cogs to fit into businesses as quickly as possible, or should there be a higher purpose of education - to allow children to fulfil their potential. Idealism aside, it would be prudent to get input from business leaders
- I agree that content is more important that just learning a few facts. Application of knowledge is required a lot more than regurgitation of facts. Unfortunately the latter is a lot easier to test
- I like the idea of critical thinking
- Apprenticeships sounds like a good idea. I think there should just be a general way to get students to get hands on experience somehow, for any subject areas (even office type ones; my area is in computing and there is the impression that to get a job you need the office experience, but its hard to get that first bit of office experience because in order to get it, you need to have had some office experience )


- I'm not sure how, but one complaint I have heard from the secondary school level is that if anyone does Mathematics as their degree and want to go into teaching, they are encouraged to go into secondary level teaching (I guess there is more of a shortage there than some other subjects). The problem that some secondary math teachers have is that, due to the math specialist teachers mainly teaching secondary level, a lot of the primary school teachers have a moderate to low ability themselves in maths (a C at GCSE for example), which hinders their ability somewhat to teach the foundations of math required for a secondary school level (sometimes there is a need to have students catch up when they start secondary because they were not taught math as well as required in primary)

[azrael]

As a semi-educationalist I think technology is an important game-changer in education. I think teachers and schools are too scared of technology and the point at which you ask kids to turn phones off in class is the point where you're excluding one of the most powerful educational devices in the classroom.

We need teachers to be comfortable enough with the handheld technology their pupils have, we need the lessons to be versatile enough to support a BYOD (bring your own device) environment (while at the same time having loaners for those pupils who don't have their own), and a curriculum that has a strong focus not on ramming facts into heads, but teaching children how to use technology to teach themselves.

With the vast stores of information online teachers can not be the repository of learning - this scares some, but it shouldn't. Instead teachers are facilitators and gatekeepers to learning processes. Teaching children how to search for information and how to critically examine what they find.

As for performance related pay for teachers, I don't like it. I doubt the teaching unions would support it. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... y-teachers

Rather than setting teachers against each other I would much rather see a process that highlights areas for improvement and then provides the relevant training.

As for discipline I would like to see children made to take greater responsibility for their education so they see themselves not as a passive victim of the system, but a vital part of their self-development. Teachers should be given NAPPI (non-abusive psychological and physical intervention) training, and allowed to put it to use when necessary.

[JaseHargreaves]

- I like the reward idea, but would need more convincing to the idea of making under performing teachers improve by using the threat of sanctions; adding more stress to someone already pretty stressed out can't help

I think we all remember crap teachers, ones that either need to be weeded out or turned into PE teachers. Seriously though, I think the pay scale should be changed so a newly qualified teacher gets £xx,xxx per year and only awarded payrises as some part of KPI achievement. Arbitrary year-on year payrises aren’t useful (IMO) in any industry.

- I think they already have needing a degree in the subject as a requirement (for secondary at least, primary teachers cover a lot more subject areas)

Yes, I’m proposing a good degree (if it is an academic subject) rather than simply a degree. A 2:2 or above.

- I suspect there may be some disagreements with the searching within the party...

To end trivial stop and search, and targeted surveillance. We will review the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIPA) Act 2000.

https://www.pirateparty.org.uk/Civil_Liberties
- This would need very careful wording; you don't want teachers just smacking kids, but you don't want them completely powerless either

I don't like the idea of arbitrary searches either, so how do we protect the kids from decent backgrounds from the kids whose parents don’t give a sh*t, the knife carrying ones. I remember a kid who brought a knife into school and in my day gangsta culture was nowhere near as prevalent as it is today.

To end trivial stop and search, and targeted surveillance. We will review the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIPA) Act 2000.

I would put members of the public in a different catagory to students and employees. Students and employees have to follow rules and conventions whilst in attendance that would be irrelevant and restrictive in their private lives.

- I do like this idea; I'm quite academic, but not everyone is. I'd probably not do as well at vocational courses, in the same way that anyone who isn't great academically would do a lot better vocationally. I think there has been more work in this area in recent years, but it could be expanded upon more

i was more vocational but stuck with academia, scraping through a levels and a degree that I did nothing with in the end. Wasn't a total waste of time but I would have been more suited to a practical application.

- I've heard that a significant issue with discipline is that some parents expect schools to do all the disciplining (by the time kids go to school there has already been a massive period of time to affect discipline early on, so it is a lot harder for teachers to try and do it from no base). There is also the issue of lack of support from some parents (i.e. don't give a shit about how their kids are doing, and don't reinforce any punishment at home if their kid gets into trouble at school, lessening the impact of school discipline significantly)

Me too, my sister is a teacher at a relatively challenging school. Parents should perhaps enter into a contract with the school regarding behaviour and values training.

- I like the idea of involving scientists and engineers, but by getting business leaders involved you risk shaping the curriculum into just what is required by business. It all depends on what you want the ultimate outcome of education and school to be - should it be turning kids into cogs to fit into businesses as quickly as possible, or should there be a higher purpose of education - to allow children to fulfil their potential. Idealism aside, it would be prudent to get input from business leaders
- I agree that content is more important that just learning a few facts. Application of knowledge is required a lot more than regurgitation of facts. Unfortunately the latter is a lot easier to test
- I like the idea of critical thinking
- Apprenticeships sounds like a good idea. I think there should just be a general way to get students to get hands on experience somehow, for any subject areas (even office type ones; my area is in computing and there is the impression that to get a job you need the office experience, but its hard to get that first bit of office experience because in order to get it, you need to have had some office experience )

Some people are only good at buying and selling and doing deals. It is still something that has value as it generates taxes and occasionally jobs, so business leaders have their place in my world view but maybe not quite as an important place they hold in today's society. I don't think rich people have to be particularly clever, just single minded and persuasive. I would also (having had a bit of a think) include leading artists and musicians as well as an historian or two.
I think the school leaving age should be lowered to 14 for those going into state funded employment training, whether it be in manufacturing or agriculture.

- I'm not sure how, but one complaint I have heard from the secondary school level is that if anyone does Mathematics as their degree and want to go into teaching, they are encouraged to go into secondary level teaching (I guess there is more of a shortage there than some other subjects). The problem that some secondary math teachers have is that, due to the math specialist teachers mainly teaching secondary level, a lot of the primary school teachers have a moderate to low ability themselves in maths (a C at GCSE for example), which hinders their ability somewhat to teach the foundations of math required for a secondary school level (sometimes there is a need to have students catch up when they start secondary because they were not taught math as well as required in primary)

Sounds like quite a difficult problem to overcome. I guess Maths isn't a sexy subject so there must be a shortage of mathematicians and a surpluss of the (often refered to as) more creative subjects.

[JaseHargreaves]

As a semi-educationalist I think technology is an important game-changer in education. I think teachers and schools are too scared of technology and the point at which you ask kids to turn phones off in class is the point where you're excluding one of the most powerful educational devices in the classroom.

We need teachers to be comfortable enough with the handheld technology their pupils have, we need the lessons to be versatile enough to support a BYOD (bring your own device) environment (while at the same time having loaners for those pupils who don't have their own), and a curriculum that has a strong focus not on ramming facts into heads, but teaching children how to use technology to teach themselves.

Interesting concept. I happen to believe that by the middle of the century, maybe earlier, high tech items such as handhelds will have replaced the pc altogether and will probably serve as a network of low energy servers to replace the energy hungry databanks we have today. I think there is room for high and low tech methods in education. Certain area’s of our lives will become low tech, less travelling in personal transport for example and more basic means of food production. Many low tech skills will be highly prized.

With the vast stores of information online teachers can not be the repository of learning - this scares some, but it shouldn't. Instead teachers are facilitators and gatekeepers to learning processes. Teaching children how to search for information and how to critically examine what they find.

Agreed.

As for performance related pay for teachers, I don't like it. I doubt the teaching unions would support it. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... y-teachers

Rather than setting teachers against each other I would much rather see a process that highlights areas for improvement and then provides the relevant training.

I stand by my opinion in the earlier post. Some people teach because it just seemed like something to do, an easy way of getting on a career ladder and they are not particularly suited to the job.

As for discipline I would like to see children made to take greater responsibility for their education so they see themselves not as a passive victim of the system, but a vital part of their self-development. Teachers should be given NAPPI (non-abusive psychological and physical intervention) training, and allowed to put it to use when necessary.

I’ll read more about NAPPI and ask the two teachers I know what they think about it. Discipline is a big part of the problem with our education system.

[azrael]

- I like the reward idea, but would need more convincing to the idea of making under performing teachers improve by using the threat of sanctions; adding more stress to someone already pretty stressed out can't help

I think we all remember crap teachers, ones that either need to be weeded out or turned into PE teachers. Seriously though, I think the pay scale should be changed so a newly qualified teacher gets £xx,xxx per year and only awarded payrises as some part of KPI achievement. Arbitrary year-on year payrises aren’t useful (IMO) in any industry.

Working in an industry where I receive automatic year on year increases (within boundaries ... so 4-5 points on a particular job scale) I suppose I should disagree. Someone staying in the same job, year on year, becoming more experienced, deserves recognition. Also in fields where pay may not be as great as other places, it acts as a retainment mechanism.

I don't like the idea of holding back pay rises relating to performance, because that can become too subjective in too many cases.

If there are bad employees who are not doing the job, that's a problem. This problem needs to be tackled head on rather than in round-about ways.

- I think they already have needing a degree in the subject as a requirement (for secondary at least, primary teachers cover a lot more subject areas)

Yes, I’m proposing a good degree (if it is an academic subject) rather than simply a degree. A 2:2 or above.

I am not sure I agree with this either. Someone able to understand Physics well enough at BSc level to get a pass, should know more than enough to teach. Furthermore where teaching is done from a syllabus it isn't as if the teacher needs to make up the lessons on the fly and is dredging their memory of Uni studies to do so. The biggest hurdle for any teacher irrespective of their degree award is translating what they know in their head (or can crib from a book before a lesson starts) into something understandable to students so it gets into their heads. And then differentiating that lesson for different ability levels so the advanced pupils don't get bored and those that need more help get it, and those that need the same information presented in a different way get that. The vital teaching skills don't come from the BSc Physics degree, but from the subsequent teaching degree.

By all means we need to make sure that teaching degrees are rigorous, and only passing students who demonstrate the correct teaching AND subject skills.

Currently HEIs providing teacher training are getting shaken up. More and more power is being removed from the Universities (with the specific skills of teaching someone to be a teacher) and being passed on to schools themselves (where all the normal pressures, and no current requirement for specific 'teaching to be a teacher' skills, leads to placement students being used to relieve pressure on teachers and without guarantee of rigorous training) there is a real risk that the standard of teachers that will be churned out in years to come will be seriously diminished.see http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/s ... ode=418078

[lhsi]

- I like the reward idea, but would need more convincing to the idea of making under performing teachers improve by using the threat of sanctions; adding more stress to someone already pretty stressed out can't help

I think we all remember crap teachers, ones that either need to be weeded out or turned into PE teachers. Seriously though, I think the pay scale should be changed so a newly qualified teacher gets £xx,xxx per year and only awarded payrises as some part of KPI achievement. Arbitrary year-on year payrises aren’t useful (IMO) in any industry.

That seems reasonable. My main worry was giving people pay cuts as I don't think that would help (of course I suspect some would argue that if you don't get a pay rise while inflation is positive you are getting an effective pay cut, but that is a general thing not specific to teaching). I do agree that good teaching should be rewarded, I suspect bad teaching should be dealt with by either getting the teacher to improve, or by removing them from the job altogether. The issue with replacing bad teachers would be if there is a general lack of teachers, some schools would go with the idea that a bad teacher is better than no teacher at all. If there were more people in the profession to choose from you would be able to push for higher quality as there would be a larger range to choose from; it is the getting the people there in the first place. I would say that better pay would be good here

I would put members of the public in a different catagory to students and employees. Students and employees have to follow rules and conventions whilst in attendance that would be irrelevant and restrictive in their private lives.

The difference between me as an employee and younger me as a student (mandatory education) is that if I disagree with the rules and conventions of my employer I can find a different employer whose values aligns with mine more. As education is mandatory up to a certain level, young me couldn't do this. If there is reasonable suspicion for a search I'm not particularly against it, but I wouldn't want it to slide into a culture of the entire body of pupils getting searched upon entering a school.

-----

I think for the AS and A level, the curriculum needs more involvement from Universities. For my first degree we all started at an entry level as none of it was really on the curriculum, but for other degrees that are covered in secondary school I've heard of first semester catch up courses where they teach everyone what they should have been taught at A level, because it isn't taught well enough for students to start on the first year University level material.

-----

Technology does need to be involved more in some areas of teaching. Not everywhere, as I don't think an absolute reliance on technology is something we want kids to have ingrained into them (its the reason why they still teach kids how to do things like long division; they're going to use a calculator if they ever need it outside of school, but the foundation is important). I don't know if this is still the case, but I've heard of some IT teachers having to also teach a second subject (business studies I think in the case I heard) because a full time IT teacher wasn't needed With technology use the focus can shift away from regurgitation of facts (as they can be looked up quickly), and focus more on the application of the looked up fact, why it is important, and critical evaluation of it. Hopefully with better technology usage it will be easier to actually test this, as opposed to testing ability to remember information.

[Cosette181]

Just to throw it out there- why hasnt anything been mentioned about Early years education?

I know i may be biased as i work in the sector but there is clearly not enough support for this subject.
Working in early years (previously called childcare) is just a complex as teaching, i have a curriculum to adhere to and the standards are so strict on what we can and cant do.

I understand that children learn most from being around thier parents but i truely believe there is a need for more funding into 2 year old early education, as there are important skills for children to learn from being around their peers.

Also whilst on the subject of early years, i get paid a pittance of what i think i should do for the job i do- i think that a wage and training standards to reflect the needs the job requires, so i strongly believe this should be reflected. Also collegues that i work with at higher levels than me (eg have degrees and extra responsibilities) get paid the basic rate as i do. I again strongly belive there should be higher standards. Afterall higher standards will mean a higher level of care.

Thoughts?

[JaseHargreaves]

Also whilst on the subject of early years, i get paid a pittance of what i think i should do for the job i do- i think that a wage and training standards to reflect the needs the job requires, so i strongly believe this should be reflected. Also collegues that i work with at higher levels than me (eg have degrees and extra responsibilities) get paid the basic rate as i do. I again strongly belive there should be higher standards. Afterall higher standards will mean a higher level of care.

Thoughts?

I recently became a father so I am interested in this subject. I think it would be good to have a policy that promotes stay-at-home parents, so perhaps if one of the two (if there are two) stays at home to bring the littlun up to primary school age, perhaps the tax allowance could be legally shared (like the married man's tax allowance but better and you don't need to be married).

I'm not wanting to put you out of work by the way, there's always going to be a need for pre-school care / education, whatever you'd like to call it.

I'd be interested to know what's on this curriculum currently????

[Cosette181]

The curriculum has just been revised and was released september this year, its called the Early years Foundations stage.

The document itself comes with statutory framework that all early years settings have to follow. This is things like how we provide the care and what support there is to do so. This can be as simple as how many members of staff are allowed on their own with a group of children (ratios) to more complex things like nutritional guidelines.
The second part of the curriculum is the develpoment matters document it could be called milestones. This is the toolkit that all early years educators/nursery nurses use. This is more about how the children learn through play and how we (as teachers) can help them enhance their learning to the next stage. This is set by age (hence the term milestones) and are used as a guide to make sure that the children in the nursery are developing at the right pace and do not need additional support/help. The whole curriculum is split into 7 areas of learning and development (3 prime and 4 specific), with 3 underlying charactristics of effective learning- playing and exploring, active learning and creative and thinking critically. The prime areas are: Personal Social and Emotional Development (eg making relationships) Physical development ( Eg moving and self handling) and communication and language ( eg Listening and attention) and the specific areas are Literacy, Mathematics, understanding the world and Expressive arts and design.

The EYFS also has 4 main themes running through it- A unique child, postive relationships, enabling enviroments and learnign and development. These are the basis for the curriculum as a whole.


After typing that all out it seems very complicated, which i actually think it needs to be that complex to ensure the care of the children is adequate.

think it would be good to have a policy that promotes stay-at-home parents, so perhaps if one of the two (if there are two) stays at home to bring the littlun up to primary school age, perhaps the tax allowance could be legally shared (like the married man's tax allowance but better and you don't need to be married).

I actually agree with this. although i believe there is a need for early years education, i think that the children learn the most from being around their parents (which could be counter balanced by the fact they learn from other children) when i think about it its a catch 22, i havent got any children yet (Even though i think of the children i look after as my own) so i think i would find that hard to judge.