ID Cards

[pi3r8]

I am against the cards, for the simple reason that although in theory the cards *could* make it a bit more convenient in the respect of not needing multiple cards (driving licence, NI, etc) The potential for misuse is far too big, and there is literally no one to make sure such things do not go on. And as said above, Someone who is committed to something so much that they will blow themselves up in a suicide attack is not in any way going to be stopped by a piece of plastic, there is always a hole and always a way through. So for the cost/likelihood of abuse, I think these cards should in no way be imposed upon what is supposedly free and democratic country.

[JohnB]

To me it's not even really about the card, as such; if we introduced a kind of "ID card", that was effectively a cut-down passport (and cheaper than a full passport, too, please!) usable within Europe, then I wouldn't have too much issue with that, and it's only very similar to what the Schengen area countries do. Then I could travel in Europe without needing a full-scale international passport, and also it would be proper government-issued photo-id useful where that type of thing is needed, I suppose I'm imagining a bit like a driver's license today but for anyone.

The real issue to me is the National Identity Register, the database that sits behind it, the cross-correlation of every time the ID is referenced back to that, and the possible future expansion of what that's used for and what else is stored and cross-referenced. And with the amount of data that would be stored, God help any individual whose data becomes damaged, transposed, duplicated, or otherwise misidentified. It's inevitable with a database that size, it will happen sometimes, and I simply imagine the kind of stories that you hear about when people move into a house, say, and the water/electric meter serials/billing gets transposed or misidentified, and the kind of grief that it sometimes takes to get a large organisation to admit it's wrong and fix it.

Then I imagine what that would be like, when it's not a utility company, but a Government office, and while it's messed up could affect every part of life....

So for that and many other reasons, I've always been opposed to ID cards and a national identity register.

[ipatrickquinn]

My argument against ID cards would, as others have suggested, not the physical card, but the potential for misuse of a giant genetic database. There's a great section of it (referring to a criminal database) in Richard Dawkins' Unweaving the Rainbow, but the essential question raised is if people have our data, what's to stop them making decisions based on peoples genetic make-up, such as their potential, their intelligence, their likelihood to commit crimes, or whatever?

Personally, I don't want any government or agency to have access to any more data than is necessary to take my money and make sure I can drive and work, and I don't see any benefit in allowing them to have it.

[martindevans]

The problem with an optional ID card scheme is how easily the government can force everyone to take a card "voluntarily". They simply make it incredibly difficult to work without one, one can imagine them saying "bring along 3 different forms of ID, at least two of which must have your address one, also get 2 people who've known you for over five years to sign this form in triplicate, or of course you can do away with all that and use the new ID card scheme we created for your convenience", over time ID cards would easily be force on us.

I was talking to an American friend, and he was saying that they have some form of photo ID card over there, which simply contains a unique number person person and a couple of things like photo/name/address etc. This would be a good compromise, every different organisation can use the unique identifier in their own database without there being any monolithic central database, that would be extremely convenient - it could be used for NHS, driving license, proof of age and shopping loyalty card all in one with no possibility of information leak.

[guyincognito]

They are a disgraceful waste of money. No one needs them there just another way the government wants to tax and control us.

[alex_brett]

Personally, I don't want any government or agency to have access to any more data than is necessary to take my money and make sure I can drive and work, and I don't see any benefit in allowing them to have it.

This, but this is also how I feel about anybody - the reason, for instance, that I quit facebook, is that businesses with whom it shared who my friends are don't need to know who my friends are in order to sell me things, and I'd rather only give me location to people who need to ship me stuff. Same principle.

[philward]

According to a recent mailing from No2ID the ONLY party that supports ID cards is the Labour party.

From the email:
* The Conservatives (standing 631 candidates) will "scrap ID cards,
the National Identity Register and the ContactPoint database";
* The Liberal Democrats (631 candidates) will "scrap intrusive
Identity Cards and have more police instead". They also intend to
"scrap plans for expensive, unnecessary new passports with
additional biometric data";

* The Pirate Party (10 candidates) "strongly oppose compulsory ID
cards, and pledge that we will never introduce them";

Assuming our new coalition government are true to their word we'll see the back of ID pretty soon.
Here's hoping.

I wonder how much of the £6bn cuts can be achieved through dropping ID.

[PeterBrett]

ID cards are gone.

http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_ ... xsl/53.htm

[samgower]

Yay, we won!

Now for the NIR...

[PeterBrett]

Yay, we won!

Now for the NIR...

If you actually RTFA you'd see that they're cancelling both ID cards and the NIR.

[scuzzmonkey]

Yay, we won!

Now for the NIR...

If you actually RTFA you'd see that they're cancelling both ID cards and the NIR.

[samgower]

Sorry, I stopped reading at "will cancel Identity Cards"

[dnotice]

Of course, there's always one... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8707112.stm

[PeterBrett]

Of course, there's always one... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8707112.stm

Indeed.

I'm still not entirely clear why they didn't introduce ID cards as basically being the same as the ID page of your passport, with exactly the same information on, and you'd be given one at the same time as your next passport. I don't see how that wouldn't have been both cheap and efficient; as far as I can see, it would have produced all of the stated benefits of the ID card scheme without any of the silly baggage that came along with it.

[guyincognito]

He just wants a credit card sized passport. I'd be fine with that without all the extra giant background database. But if you have a passport already it's just a huge waste of time and billions.

[AndrewTindall]

Of course, there's always one... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8707112.stm

Indeed.

I'm still not entirely clear why they didn't introduce ID cards as basically being the same as the ID page of your passport, with exactly the same information on, and you'd be given one at the same time as your next passport. I don't see how that wouldn't have been both cheap and efficient; as far as I can see, it would have produced all of the stated benefits of the ID card scheme without any of the silly baggage that came along with it.

this is what I'd like. or if a link to passport is considered too infringing, just an optional government certified photo ID with nothing but name, age/dob, and photo.

[Duke]

For anyone interested, the actual Bill is here: http://services.parliament.uk/bills/201 ... ments.html
Second reading (in the Commons) scheduled for the 9th.

Some choice quotes:

(1) The Identity Cards Act 2006 is repealed.

Already off to a great start.

(2) All ID cards that are valid immediately before that day are to be treated as cancelled by the Secretary of State at the end of the period of one month beginning with that day.

So they are going all-out; killing the entire system. Possibly further than we would have gone - although, obviously, their main concern is expense, not privacy.

The Secretary of State must ensure that all the information recorded in the National Identity Register is destroyed before the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.

Ah, wasn't that nice...

Anyway, the rest of the Act is mainly reinstating various other parts of the ID Cards Act that are needed (false documents etc.) and changing the wording in a dozen or so other Acts to reflect the changes.

[GrahamSimpson]

A plastic ID card with my name, photo and a date of birth. A hologram, or an electronic fingerprint of the data fine - but the data itself cannot be directly electronically copyable, or stored in any database. Purely a physical means of personal identification.