BPI Anti-Piracy Head speaking in Edinburgh

[philward]

Anyone feel like heading down en-masse?

Details:
9 December 2010
SSCL Annual General Meeting followed by SSCL Meeting
Speaker: Helen Saunders, Head of Online Anti-Piracy, BPI
Topic: The challenge of tackling online piracy
Venue: Burness LLP, 50 Lothian Road, Edinburgh
Time: AGM and registration 5.30-6pm; Meeting 6pm

Those wishing to attend should register their interest by emailing mail@sscl.org

[scottainslie]

Yes.

[Finlay_A]

I'm thinking we could tie this in with a December meeting in Edinburgh?

[cabalamat]

I'm thinking we could tie this in with a December meeting in Edinburgh?

Makes sense.

[philward]

This meeting is now two weeks away. If you want to attend then please email mail@sscl.org to register.

I would like to solicit ideas for questions to put to the speaker regarding if there is a need for the BPI's anti-piracy crusade and questioning their tactics etc.
Even if you can't be there please post concise questions that get our point across and we'll try and get them answered.

I'll try and give a summary of the talk and Q & A here after the event.

Here are some more details regarding the speaker (taken from the SSCL reminder email).

Subject: Chasing pirates across the digital landscape

This presentation will provide an overview of the current digital piracy landscape and the BPI’s anti-piracy work in this area, covering both peer-to-peer and web hosted infringement.

The BPI is the trade association for the recorded music industry in the UK, representing the four majors, a wide range of independent labels and also providing support for artists and management. Anti-piracy is a core part of its activities, aiming to give new and innovative music services the chance to grow and establish themselves. Growth and re-investment is essential for new artists to break through and existing acts to fulfil their full potential.

Helen Saunders is Head of Internet Investigations with the Anti-Piracy Unit of the BPI in London and has been in this role since May 2009. She has previously worked at IFPI, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, methe UK’s National Hi-Tech Crime Unit and the Metropolitan Police. Her law enforcement experience spans 8 years as an analyst and investigator and she has been involved in a large number of investigations, including those relating to serious organised hi-tech crime.

She has a Bachelor’s degree in Law and a Master's degree in Computer and Communications Law, both from Queen Mary College, University of London. She has been trained in advanced network investigations and ethical hacking and has used her knowledge and experience to provide training and guidance to law enforcement officers in online investigations around the world.

It's at Burness, 50 Lothian Road, Edinburgh and starts at 6pm.

[Finlay_A]

Anyone else from Glasgow going? I'll probably be heading over quite early to avoid peak time on the train. Paying 50% more to be sqaushed in like tuna just isn't my style. Will probably kick about in a coffee shop or something in Edinburgh before hand.

[onoflalks]

I might head across, get a coffee or a beer in Waverley or something

[Finlay_A]

I might head across, get a coffee or a beer in Waverley or something

I think it's closer to Haymarket tbh. There will be a few people going from Glasgow I imagine, so we could all get the same train.

[philward]

Here's an initial draft of a question for the speaker.

I'll have a go at précis later. Comments welcome.

You have not fully explained the reason for all this anti-piracy crusade.

Your own press release on 18th May 2009 estimates industry losses to piracy to be £180 million in 2008 and £200 million in 2009, but do these figures assume that one illegal download equals one lost sale? (http://www.bpi.co.uk/press-area/news-amp3b-press-release/article/new-bpi-stats-show-strength-of-digital-music-7c-bpi-press-release.aspx)

One illegal download could mean any of the following:

A user hears a song that they would not otherwise have heard and certainly never bought had they not downloaded it.
User discovers a band they like a lot and becomes a paying fan of that band. This may not have happened without the initial download.
User discovers a band they like so much that they share material on social networking sites. User's friends become paying fans.

Last year we had a couple of speakers from Spotify here who claimed that piracy is not really hurting anyone. The bigger the artist, the more they are pirated. Small artists are not pirated as much. It is only the rich artists who see any significant impact from piracy and they are big enough to absorb it.
Their answer to piracy is to compete with it rather than litigate against it by providing a service that is more convenient than piracy at an acceptable price.
Would the BPI not better serve their members by looking into how to compete with illegal downloads rather than "Chasing pirates across the digital landscape"?

[Finlay_A]

There's also this

The royalties that UK songwriters, composers and music publishers get from online sales are growing faster than the decline from CDs and DVDs.

From the BBC.

Looking for ideas, I plan to wade through all the opinion left in the wake of the #deappg thing the other night, to get some inspiration, steal pirate some good ideas for quetions. (I've seen a couple of good'uns on twitter already)

One obvious rebuttal to Phil's Q is "but how do we compete with filesharing", easy to answer if you have right of reply.

[philward]

I thought I had answered that:

"providing a service that is more convenient than piracy at an acceptable price."

It is up to the industry to work out the details.

[Finlay_A]

Yeah, but it's something that seems to happen to me a lot, people ask how industry will make money with legalised filesharing. I go on at length about the plethora of different ways they could, but it always ends up people have a problem with the "new" models I suggest. ("New" is in bunny rabbit ears because many of them have been done already and worked.)

But it annoys me thay we are expected to provide all the answers of how a business is to make money. If they gave me a nicely paid job then I'd work very hard at developing new ways to make money for them.

[Finlay_A]

The seminar has been postponed due to the weather

Will we go ahead with the meeting anyway? Or put it off until the weather clears?

[philward]

The BPI visit is back on. Details:

19th of May
Burness LLP, 50 Lothian Road, Edinburgh

Registration at 5:30 for a 6pm start.

[Finlay_A]

So that's our May meeting sorted then!

It's just after the election then ... Let's get a big Pirate swing and see them quake in fear

[philward]

This event is now just over a month away. While I realise that our main focus is the elections I'd like to provoke some thought as to how we handle this opportunity.

We could simply turn up en-masse and sit on the front row wearing our Pirate Party t-shirts but I doubt we'd get even one question answered / point made.

With this in mind I'd like to suggest the following strategy.

Firstly it would be good to know how many of us are planning to be there.
Don't display PPUK t-shirts (at least until after the Q&A session).
Try to dress in a professional manner.
Don't all meet up before the session.
Spread ourselves around the room. No more than two pirates sitting together.
We agree a list of questions on this thread. The first pirate to ask a question asks question 1, the second asks question 2 etc.
After the event we display our PPUK t-shirts and stand outside the venue handing out project postcard flyers.

Using this strategy I believe it is more likely that we will be able to get three or four, maybe more, points across.

Thoughts?

[aramoro]

If you're going to go to this and try to ask questions make sure you're prepared. This will be populated almost exclusively by people in the legal industry, Helen Saunders is very clever, by reputation, you should not assume you can just stump her with an off topic question (The Topic is how to catch pirates, not why they are pirates). Avoid talking about legalities if you can, try not to embarrass yourself.

It will be good for a laugh a least, but one of the toughest crowds you'll get.

[lhsi]

If the topic is how to catch pirates, would a question about false positives be good?

[scuzzmonkey]

The use of Bot Nets and compromised PCs, Proxies, Encryption, MitM, etc.

[philward]

OK people, the meeting is this Thursday. Who is coming?

Speaker: Helen Saunders, Head of Online Anti-Piracy, BPI
Topic: The challenge of tackling online piracy
Venue: Burness LLP, 50 Lothian Road, Edinburgh
Time: AGM and registration 5.30-6pm; Meeting 6pm

Those wishing to attend should register their interest by emailing mail@sscl.org

I have thrown together a few questions that may be worth asking. Comments and further question suggestions would be most welcome in the hope that we can get our point across effectively.

I also have a few left over Project Postcard flyers. perhaps we could hand them out outside the building after the presentation?

Here are the questions.

(This question is only relevant if figures are given stating the cost of piracy.)
Regarding the cost of piracy stated, are you assuming that every illegal download is a lost sale?
Clearly for many illegal downloads some are "try before you buy", while others represent people who would not have purchased even if they had been unable to download illegally.
I suggest that the actual cost to the industry is far less than stated.


Music needs to be free. No one buys music unless they have at least heard something by the artist previously. At first this was through radio, but TV and youtube are now ways to hear music. Free access to music is what the industry has used in the past to turn people who are ignorant of an artist into paying fans. Should free downloads not be viewed as free advertising and the next step in making people aware of your work?


(This question is only relevant if the methods described appear to be overly intrusive.)
The methods you describe are extremely intrusive.
Last week your own Chief Executive Geoff Taylor was celebrating digital music sales exceeding the £1bn mark and stating "The strength of British music means there is fantastic potential for further growth."
This, plus having seen some of the footage of the lavsh party thrown at this year's Brit Awards you can't surely claim that the music industry is in trouble.
Do you honestly expect society to accept your invasive spying techniques for the sake of an already fat industry?


Last year we had a couple of speakers from Spotify here who claimed that piracy is not really hurting anyone. The bigger the artist, the more they are pirated. Small artists are not pirated as much. It is only the rich artists who see any significant impact from piracy and they are big enough to absorb it.
Their answer to piracy is to compete with it rather than litigate against it by providing a service that is more convenient than piracy at an acceptable price.
Would the BPI not better serve their members by looking into how to compete with illegal downloads rather than "Chasing pirates across the digital landscape"?