"Filesharing is stealing"

[guyincognito]

This is a good diagram for explaining how far the other way the RIAA have gone...

http://www.cracked.com/funny-4003-the-pirate-bay/

[TheJambo]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -small.png

Do like this.

[samgower]

I fear this is degrading into a picture thread. Please keep to the written word!

[Abedecian]

piracyjq1.png

I like

[Hamish]

How can sharing be stealing?

[01smicha]

I suppose the only point it can be confused as 'stealing' is at the point when the song/film/application/etc is initially taken from the 'owner' without their permission.

Surely from then on when the said file is being shared through numerous sites, the closest thing it can be called is 'handling stolen goods', although there are no goods to be handled.....

[scuzzmonkey]

copying digital file cannot be classed as stealing - it is a logical impossibility - stealing involves taking the good from them, if you cut/paste'd the file - then fair enough.

[Duke]

copying digital file cannot be classed as stealing - it is a logical impossibility - stealing involves taking the good from them, if you cut/paste'd the file - then fair enough.

That's a moral argument, but not a legal one; from the law, to steal something, you only need to "treat the thing as [your] own to dispose of regardless of the other's rights" - so copying could kind of count. The legal issue is that there is no "thing" to steal.

[forsterb01]

According to English (and Welsh) law in the Theft Act 1968:

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"

or so Wikipedia and the lovely legislation.gov.uk inform

Using this definition, and since Stealing is the definition of Theft (according to the thesaurus), copying a digital file is not stealing unless you go ahead and delete the original copy (also known as a "cut"). This will explain why legally you do not carry out copyright "theft", but copyright "infringement"!

Ergo furtum NON est socius lima! (Therefore file sharing is NOT stealing, or so Google informs me...)

[guyincognito]

In that case can we sue the MAFIAA for those terrible 'you wouldn't steal a car' anti-piracy spam they stick on every legit DVD I buy? They make me want to pirate stuff just so I dont gave to watch them before every episode of Family Guy

[forsterb01]

If you've got the cash to pay a lawyer, I'd give it a go, probably false advertising somewhow

Something tells me all you'd win would be a disclaimer on the end: FILESHARING IS STEALING*, DON'T BE BAD!!! *Filesharing is not actually stealing, but hey, you don't care!

[tuoni]

The one I've always used to refute the argument that "copying is stealing" is Oxford v Moss (1979) - the result of this case is that information is not deemed to be intangible property and therefore cannot be stolen.

A link to the judgement

[neilea]

piracyjq1.png

very good findlay.

[Duke]

Probably somewhere earlier in this thread is my attempt to analyse this:

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.

The second part in bold is the wishy-washy argument for it not being stealing or theft. However, that probably isn't a legal argument. The "intention to permanently deprive" is clarified in s6 to include "treat[ing] the thing as his own to dispose of regardless of the other’s rights" - which probably includes copying, as that is restricted by the copyright owner's rights.

The legal argument is about the "property" bit. The information or articles (i.e. song, story, film) aren't property. Parts of the copyright are (due to silliness in the 80s), but the actual information cannot be property (see the link to Oxford v Moss above).

As for suing the MAFIAA for those silly "piracy is stealing" adverts; as far as I am aware, there is nothing illegal about lying on its own. It might be false advertising, but again, that doesn't seem to be illegal or unlawful of itself, but entirely up to the ASA to deal with.

[GrahamSimpson]

So a simple soundbite from the legal definition of stealing would be:

You can't call it stealing if he's not taking the file away from you.