Suggestion: Evaluate 'PPUK' as a primary brand

[borgs8472]

Hi All

I hope not to come across as rehashing an argugment that's been done to death, but I've been involved in some post election analysis work and once again spotted the the trend:

Many people were sympathetic, but were discouraged by the name 'Pirate Party'

I'm paraphrasing a discussion that's been going on since shortly after the party's inception, as the evolution from short term trend to long term organisation has come about. Comment on these forums has ranged from the name is somehow immature, irrelevant, good at heart but too niche through to the other end of typically party activists defending to the death the sacredness of the links to the Pirate bay (increasingly tpb), the global pirate movement, Pirate party international and Piratpartiet Sweden.

These were all important things that needed to be said from both sides, but aside from agreeing not to rename the party, achieved little else.

I think it's time the party as a whole consider moving towards more prominent use of PPUK as the brand, with the full name remaining just as valid, however used more internally of the political movement.

I don't believe this would be a lot of technical or PR work to achieve (no need to make a big announcement), more a case of revising guidelines for printed materials, certain communication protocols, and a small acknowledgement that some people might consider an ideological repositioning, is actually an small change in order to buy into the UK political system, appear more mainstream (by default, but not if we don't want to) and generally play the game.

I don't expect this to be a change that is led entirely from PPUK leadership either, I would like to see some member discussion on the matter and some kind of member led mandate on the matter too. The press team would pay a key role in this, the web team a smaller role with the appropriate branding refresh in time. Campaigns could take this in any direction they wanted to, or not as the case may be.

I think it's time

- Chris

[lhsi]

Hasn't this already started to happen somewhat? I've read the occasional news article about a PPUK related issue and some have a quote from someone from the party, actually mentioning something like "such and such from the Pirate Party UK".

Speaking of branding, which do you think is more important, the name (PPUK), or the logo (the flag in the circle)? Or are they both equally important? I guess it depends on the medium (largely text based services like twitter would rely on the name a lot more than other media that could be more visual based)

[zag]

PPUK is much better than the pirate party.

Kind of like how xbmc rebranded from xbox media centre when it was no longer just the xbox

[M2Ys4U]

We should stick to Pirate Party UK.

Firstly, we've got a modest media profile now; Journalists are coming to us because of the name and the fact we have sensible things to say.

Secondly, As we continue to campaign, especially in area where we've stood candidates before, we're building up mindshare in the electorate about the "Pirate Party".

Thirdly, the international links can't be underestimated. The fact we can say there are 2 pirate party MEPs or that the Pirate Party in Germany stormed the Berlin elections etc. is great for the movement.

Fourthly, it's just not needed. The Tories were named such after the Irish for an outlaw or robber (and this name is still used as a nickname for the Conservative Party now), the Whigs were also named after a Scottish insult for cattle drivers. Why should we not be called Pirates, as this is the "insult" given to those who think that sharing culture is bad?

[Finlay_A]

I disagree. I don't really like PPUK for anything except internal use.

Just say it out loud: "Vote Pirate" vs "Vote PPUK", or "I'm a pirate" vs "I'm a PPUK member". If we want a shortened name, why not just "Pirates", "Pirate" or whatever. Interesting example, the Piratenpartei Deutschland use "PIRATEN" on the ballot, as opposed to abbreviations like CDU, CSU, FDP, SDP, etc. In the UK we have the Green Party of England and Wales. Most people know them as "Greens", not GPEW, and while there will be those who won't vote green becuase they see them as "tree-hugging hippie nutters", I still can't see the Greens rebranding as GPEW any time soon.

"Green" and "Pirate" represent the identities of the green and pirate parties respectively, and I don't think trying to conceal the "Pirate" part of our name and identity would be at all helpful. Also you have to have people identify with "PPUK", which is just a meaningless combination of letters to most of them. People will give "Pirate Party" a second glance, people come up to our stall to find out more about what this "Pirate Party" is. I can't see that happening without the "Pirate" branding.

We're still probably in the position where most people don't know what the Pirate Party is, or what we're about. The small percentage that do know us as "Pirates". The "Pirate" brand is more interesting and marketable than some meaningless acronym, and while "Pirate" may be associated by some as single-issue or "silly eyepatch-wearing piss-takes", others can associate with the positive aspecs of the name whereas "PPUK" means nothing to anyone outside of this forum.

I'd rather leave the attempts to become more "mainstream" or "acceptable" through use of acronyms to groups like the EDL, BNP and UKIP.

EDIT: (and that's without getting into the whole "UK" issue again )

[borgs8472]

Hasn't this already started to happen somewhat? I've read the occasional news article about a PPUK related issue and some have a quote from someone from the party, actually mentioning something like "such and such from the Pirate Party UK".

Currently how we're reported is a mix, also how we represent ourselves is a mix.

Firstly, we've got a modest media profile now; Journalists are coming to us because of the name and the fact we have sensible things to say.

That's certainly a good point. I'm going to do some googling later and see what name we're most often referred to as.

Secondly, As we continue to campaign, especially in area where we've stood candidates before, we're building up mindshare in the electorate about the "Pirate Party".

That would be a fair point - if we had a stronger base at local level. Also, my suggestion would in no way limit local candidates running on the name Pirate Party, as oppressed to PPUK, if they felt it were stronger for their campaign, even a mix. My suggestion is for the national press and branding policy though.

Thirdly, the international links can't be underestimated. The fact we can say there are 2 pirate party MEPs or that the Pirate Party in Germany stormed the Berlin elections etc. is great for the movement.

Yes and no to this point. It's great that we can point at the success of our European allies and be seen to have close ties to them, however it's worth noting Pirate Party translates differently in non-english languages, meaning it's more of a neutral branding in other countries, where as in english it has a literal translation. I would say that places us in a more volitile situation regarding the name.

Why should we not be called Pirates, as this is the "insult" given to those who think that sharing culture is bad?

I'm not suggesting removing that part of the name at all, simply moving away from using it to describe ourselves externally.

I disagree. I don't really like PPUK for anything except internal use.

I will admit it's not particularly fun, but I also realise I'm not the demographic we need to work hardest to appeal to.

Just say it out loud: "Vote Pirate" vs "Vote PPUK", or "I'm a pirate" vs "I'm a PPUK member".

Those are good examples of associated slogans, and a prime example of where they should be tailored for the situation. For example, a poster might say 'vote pirate' (after being sure to reference what sort of pirate) and invite people to vote for PPUK for instance. Nothing wrong with people continuing to call themselves pirates or PPUK members.

If we want a shortened name, why not just "Pirates", "Pirate" or whatever.

It's a specific case (external communications) I'm referencing, not the general case.

Interesting example, the Piratenpartei Deutschland use "PIRATEN" on the ballot,

See my point earlier about us having an exception due to the language issue.

Most people know them as "Greens", not GPEW, and while there will be those who won't vote green becuase they see them as "tree-hugging hippie nutters", I still can't see the Greens rebranding as GPEW any time soon.

A valid comparison, but I do feel naming yourself after a colour with hippie overtones is a stronger position than we're in.

People will give "Pirate Party" a second glance, people come up to our stall to find out more about what this "Pirate Party" is. I can't see that happening without the "Pirate" branding.

A stall is another good example of where to keep the pirate brand prominantly, it wasn't my suggestion that everything be effected.

whereas "PPUK" means nothing to anyone outside of this forum.

I wouldn't say it's totally unknown outside the forums, but again, I need to research this point a bit more.

EDIT: (and that's without getting into the whole "UK" issue again )

Another prime example of where Scotland should make up its own mind on such issues. Long live Pirate Party Scotland, if that's what your members want

[Finlay_A]

I don't really get the language issue. Aside from the fact that in the vast majority of countries in the European and American continents, "Pirate" translates to something very similar "Piraten, Pirates, Pirat, Piratska, Pirate, Piraati, Pirata", I don't see how "PPUK" is any better.

My view is that PPUK is fine for internal use, and especially between different national parties. It's kinda how it came about isn't it? Referring to Pirate Parties in other countries by their tlds as a way to distinguish them internationally (PP-DE, PP-SE, PP-UK)? For some reason we have kept our reference to "UK" in our actual name within national politics, whereas other countries' parties have just used "Pirate Party".

So we use Pirate Party UK, why the UK is necessary I don't know, maybe in case anyone forgets which county we live in. And as with the whole PP-Scotland thing, it would seem that using just "Pirate Party" would simplify everything. At any rate media usually refer to us as "the Pirate Party" (which is what we are lol), or sometimes something akin to the UK branch of the Pirate Party, implying the "Pirate Party" is an international movement (which again it kindof is).

The real issue for me is that "Pirate Party" has a lot more relevance to the media and the public than "PPUK" would. Not only that but since this discussion is about brand recognition, "Pirate Party" is far easier to build brand recognition for than "PPUK". I mean, the last three years has been spent building this brand recognition. We're now at the point that people notice my Pirate Party t-shirt, which is nice, and a huge improvement on where we were when I first stood for election in 2010. We'd not only have to start building recognition for "PPUK" from scratch, but we'd be doing so with something that is much harder to build recognition of. Currently (looking at our logo for example) the prominent word is "PIRATE", and this is what people recognise.

tl;dr PPUK is fine for internal use, I actually like it for internal use. But for external branding, I mean, what's the point? It's rubbish, it conveys no meaning, it has no recognition, and it just sounds a bit UKIP-y

[aramoro]

The problem is rather obvious, Pirate Party sounds a bit



Which is fair enough, it's fun and jokey. It coveys your intentions very well, clearly your the party who supports The Pirate Bay, the party of downloading free TV programs right? Oh wait you had some other message to deliver about fairness in medical patents and open standards etc? But it IS mostly about free TV programs though, because I need to catchup on my True Blood.

That is the biggest selling point and the biggest problem with the party name in a oner.

[Duke]

In my experience, we should stick with "Pirate Party" (with or without the UK), but... we need a short, snappy answer to the question "Why are you called Pirates?" (or words to that effect; "If you don't support criminal activities, why are you called...?" etc.).

Any suggestions?

[lhsi]

In my experience, we should stick with "Pirate Party" (with or without the UK), but... we need a short, snappy answer to the question "Why are you called Pirates?" (or words to that effect; "If you don't support criminal activities, why are you called...?" etc.).

Words change and language evolves. (the downside to that is that it could come off fairly abstract and somewhat pretentious )


By the way, not to complain that it sparked off discussion, but my question was whether the name (i.e. the text, whatever the best way to word it is), or whether visual imagery (i.e. the logo) is more important.

[icStatic]

I was actually hesitant to become a member of the party due to its name. This has been covered by all the posts above this one but I wanted to weigh in. To anyone who hasn't read the core values the name suggests that it's members like to pirate things, which is quite simply not what the party stands for. I'm slightly wary that advertising yourself as a member might give the wrong impression. I know tons of people who would gladly vote for a party that has the values PPUK does, but wouldn't give the party a shout because of the name.

Shortly after the AV referendum disaster I became disheartened by the whole political process, especially after watching the Tories win in the election before it. I did give consideration to starting a party that had values similar to those held by the PPUK. I was going to name it The Internet Party or something along those lines. The idea would be the name of the party gave people a good indication of what it was fighting for.

[Art]

PPUK is not great. Sounds like urine, to be precise. Pirate Party is a good name. For those who say that is sounds like a joke, and wont work, check out the Berlin campaign, which worked. The Guardian said "Their irreverent campaign captured the imagination of young voters as the party expanded its platform from an original focus on filesharing, censorship and data protection, to include social issues and citizens' rights. The party, which was founded in 2006, was "in tune with the Berlin vibe with their relaxed campaign", Holger Liljeberg of the Info polling institute, told Reuters. "They focus a lot on liberalism, freedom and self-determination."

Once opinion pollsters began to predict that they might overcome the crucial 5% hurdle to get into parliament, the momentum behind the Pirates began to grow, with supporters no longer worrying that a vote for them would be wasted."

[Finlay_A]

PPUK is not great. Sounds like urine, to be precise.

Heh. I hadn't considered that. Another reason not to be too keen on "PPUK".