Bad language ...

[Trakgalvis]

I object to bad language on this forum, as it does not help resolve anything. It gives a bad impression to those who might want to join, and it might result in a lot of bad press. To be effective, you need to look reasonable. Clearly, this is a much more serious problem from an officer, even if stressed. it should stop.

There should be a basic level of moderation on a forum like this to remove posts with bad language. There is simply no point in it.

[Duke]

Perhaps rather than removing posts, moderating to alter "offensive" words - I'm not sure about the current forum system, but in some it is possible to set up an auto-change thing, adding *s and whatnot.

[Eden]

phpbb (these foums) have a system to filter out any words you choose, though tbh it would be good if we are all mature enough to do our best to keep swear words to a minimum, i much rather see us with some responcability to write decently than have the forum admins put a filter on us because were to imature to do it ourselves.

[Trakgalvis]

phpbb (these foums) have a system to filter out any words you choose, though tbh it would be good if we are all mature enough to do our best to keep swear words to a minimum, i much rather see us with some responcability to write decently than have the forum admins put a filter on us because were to imature to do it ourselves.

I agree with the above.

[Teachdaire]

I fully agree.

Remember people, we are a legitimate polictical party, and important issues are discussed here.

[Trakgalvis]

I fully agree.

Remember people, we are a legitimate polictical party, and important issues are discussed here.

It would be a shame, if our style, obscured our good ideas. I have written to Andy R. and Eric on this, so I hope things improve.

[cabalamat]

I fully agree.

Remember people, we are a legitimate polictical party, and important issues are discussed here.

Indeed so. I'm saddened by recent events within the party. We can do better than this.

[Trakgalvis]

Hopefully we can draw a line under this now.

[Icanhas]

I suggest we use a thesaurus each time we are about to swear.

[Trakgalvis]

This is my final post on this forum. I thought I would post here, as this is the topic that lead to my leaving.

[Trakgalvis]

Starting this thread has created too much anger here against me, so I have just emailed Andy R. asking for my membership record to be deleted.

[Eden]

I dont know what went on but its just amazing (in a bad way) to think that this topic has cause so much trouble for you trakgalvis. People should be able to get the views across without using bad language as it really just puts a bad image across for the person(s) using such language it really shouldn't be needed.

So its a shame to hear that.

I hope people can all start being a little more mature were all here for the same reason after all.

[bitplane]

If the party is in favour of free speech then they should practice what they preach and not censor the forums. I'm beginning to think that those who actually are in favour of free speech are a tiny minority around here. I am in favour of a 'sin-bin' forum where childish, abusive and otherwise unproductive posts and topics can be moved, but not the outright censorship of bad words.

[epriezka]

If the party is in favour of free speech then they should practice what they preach and not censor the forums. I'm beginning to think that those who actually are in favour of free speech are a tiny minority around here. I am in favour of a 'sin-bin' forum where childish, abusive and otherwise unproductive posts and topics can be moved, but not the outright censorship of bad words.

The problem with internet forums is that they are not a suitable mechanism for gauging the opinions of large numbers of people. As in any activity where it takes an effort to make your voice heard, the people likeliest to make the effort are also the people likeliest to be the most extreme in their passions and beliefs. By virtue of being extreme, they may very likely be unrepresentative. However, because there is no feedback mechanism on what anyone else thinks, people get can be encouraged to believe that the few voices heard really do represent the wishes of many others who remain silent.

Richard Nixon touched on this point when he talked about the 'silent majority'. He argued that it did not matter how much attention was gained by his opponents, who were rabidly opposed to him and the things he stood for, so long as there were even more people who silently, without fuss or bother, agreed with him and what he stood for. He won that election. We'd do well to remember that we're in the same business as Nixon - our goal is to win elections, not to appease those who shout loudest.

As for bad language, I believe I'm seen as the villain of the piece. I'm not going to apologize for, nor defend, my behaviour. Anyone can see the number of posts I have written, the number of words communicated publicly, how often I have used bad language, and what the tone and nature of my language is in general. The post itself should not be removed because it was an act of free speech, however intemperate. Free speech should be tolerated and I am bemused that we have supporters who seem so easily upset at some robust language, and who want to take a nannyish approach to handling it. Mark Twain said "If I cannot swear in heaven I shall not stay there." Shakespeare included a pun on the word "country" in Hamlet. We all understand why John Major once referred to some of his colleagues as "b*stards". I believe any reasonable person who read my offending post in context would perfectly well sympathize with the reasons why I did what I did, and not seek to make mileage by dragging out the incident unnecessarily. I've been bashed for being too secretive, bashed for being too public, bashed for not speaking up, and bashed for speaking up too forcibly. When I called for people to show respect and tolerance to each other, and not to engage in public slanging matches, I was ignored, and when I 'took the gloves off' as I was literally provoked to do, I was criticized for not adhering to the standards that others expected.

It's tedious to play the part of a pantomime villain for other people's entertainment. I don't know whether this post will draw things to an end or will just prompt it to go on even longer. All I can say is that, in my honest estimation, anyone who seeks to gain attention to themselves, or to amuse themselves, by dragging this out even longer, must be lacking in humanity, compassion or mercy, and must not have the best interests of this party in heart or mind.

[rancidpunk]

I have to ask you to stop this for the sake of the party, we can't afford to further this split, I have resigned, and trakglavis and judy have left.
If you would like me to leave the party completely, I will do so if you will agree to focus on the Pirate Party.
You are a professional person and I am not. We need a good treasurer more than we need words that I can contribute.
I apologise again for any personal offence I have caused you.
I apologise again for any harm that I might have caused to the party.

[bitplane]

It's tedious to play the part of a pantomime villain for other people's entertainment. I don't know whether this post will draw things to an end or will just prompt it to go on even longer. All I can say is that, in my honest estimation, anyone who seeks to gain attention to themselves, or to amuse themselves, by dragging this out even longer, must be lacking in humanity, compassion or mercy, and must not have the best interests of this party in heart or mind.

I wasn't aware that it had been dragged out or that it had fueled long and fierce debates, it wasn't my intention to amuse myself or draw attention to myself by posting in this topic, I just thought that it's hypocritical for people to oppose swearing yet be for free speech. I personally think that the free speech issue is something that the Pirate Party should avoid, it's a sensitive and very controversial issue.

[rancidpunk]

Freedom of expression can't be ignored by the PPUK as too contrversial. It's part of our ideals and beliefs.

[xXedixXx]

I don't see why anyone should have the need to use bad language on this forum (a political party).

There is simply no need whatsoever for it.

[epriezka]

It's tedious to play the part of a pantomime villain for other people's entertainment. I don't know whether this post will draw things to an end or will just prompt it to go on even longer. All I can say is that, in my honest estimation, anyone who seeks to gain attention to themselves, or to amuse themselves, by dragging this out even longer, must be lacking in humanity, compassion or mercy, and must not have the best interests of this party in heart or mind.

I wasn't aware that it had been dragged out or that it had fueled long and fierce debates, it wasn't my intention to amuse myself or draw attention to myself by posting in this topic, I just thought that it's hypocritical for people to oppose swearing yet be for free speech. I personally think that the free speech issue is something that the Pirate Party should avoid, it's a sensitive and very controversial issue.

It wasn't you I had in mind, bitplane. It was trakgalvis a.k.a. Kalvis Jansons who's been posting forum post after forum post, and sending email after email to every email address he could find.

Bitplane, you and I agree about swearing, though I don't want to extend this debate any further. I don't tend to swear because I have no great desire to upset other people, even though swearing doesn't bother me in the least. In other words, I'm not keen on censoring swearing for the same reasons I'm not keen on other forms of censorship, although I usually self-censor. If Twain and Shakespeare can see the merits of swear language, I think it's rather sad to pour energy into making certain words taboo, when we can agree that there are so many more important things that are wrong with the world. I don't want to abuse this site by promoting my personal blog, but if you want to know my personal attitude to 'bad' language, I once wrote a long piece about it here: http://halfthoughts.com/2008/04/19/taboo-or-not-taboo-whats-in-a-word/. If people really want to debate the party's attitude to 'bad' language (personally, I don't think it's important enough to merit a debate) then that blog would count as my tuppence-worth.

[valisk1]

I'm really rather sad about all this, as it does seem with factions and splits already occuring the party is at risk of degenerating into a People's Front of Judea versus the Popular Front of Judea type scenario before we have finalized a single policy or even begun to contest a single election.

Yet we have so much in common with so much we can achieve.
Is it not possible that folks can put down their pistols and step back for a while?