ID Cards

[mattd]

What do we think the PPUK stance on a national ID card should be?

There are clearly privacy concerns, but would PPUK be against it even if the government could completely prove that it could guard everyone's privacy (e.g. independent 3rd party inspection,mathematical proofs etc)?

[Vanders]

What do we think the PPUK stance on a national ID card should be?

Personally I have no objections to an actual physical card, at least as a voluntary extension to a passport. Where I have a problem is the huge database and biometric data that they wish to attach to those cards.

There are clearly privacy concerns, but would PPUK be against it even if the government could completely prove that it could guard everyone's privacy (e.g. independent 3rd party inspection,mathematical proofs etc)?

I would still be very much against it. Apart from the very idea that the government has any right to collect and store such details about it's citizens, the number of people who it wishes to allow access to that database is both huge and absurd. No amount of technical measures will guard against pure human stupidity or malevolence.

[bobappleyard]

Yeah, it's the whole transformational government, with big centralised databases that are the issue.

[Eden]

They never have worked. The UK has had id cards before, during World War 1 and World War 2 both were abandoned shortly after those wars in 1919 and 1952. Even in both cases were id cards were there to identify citizens from non-citizens they were curcumvented either by forging id cards or simply recruting British citizens to spy or carry out any number of activitys for Germany.

This has never changed, and today we arnt even in a war yet they still want these id cards and databases and for what reason. Terrorism was stated a number of times though I am not sure if they changed there excuse for id cards recently.

Since when do you need an id card to blow up a bus? When do you need an id card to train or recruit potential terrorists? You dont, there simply isnt any reason to have these cards or this database other than to track or record the lives of British citizens because terrorists or criminals simply dont care if the government wants everyone to have id cards it wont stop them doing there daily business.

Why should I have to carry id with me? I'm a British citizen and should be allowed to go where I want without being asked "id please!"

I would assume a lot have seen this but I think it shows a good picture of how id cards probably just wont work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwRsQY7Q ... feature=iv

[nez]

I hate the idea of ID cards.

What is it going to do for ME? nothing. Is it going to stop terrorists? no.

does it mean that even more of of data, and info is going to be on a database tracking my every move? yes
Its just another way to control us as a nation.

[rancidpunk]

Why anyone lets our government touch the keyboard of anything is beyond me. Look at the NHS fiasco and the MOD allowing all three armed forces to have mutually incompatible systems developed at the same time. Just pay a small proportion of what they do spend and get a commercial company to deal with what they know how to do. Let the government devote their attention to important things that they know nothing about.

[rakiru]

With above...

Also, I am totally against ID cards... As has already been mentioned, it's not going to do anything for us personally, and it is not going to stop terrorism...

[NDR008]

I have lived in to countries where National EU ID cards exist, and I must say - make my life simpler and safer to me on a number of ways.

But I also say no to UK ID cards just because of this over informational gathering biometric info and what not. I am a bit busy at the moment for a long post, but I would love to share the advantages I perceived and the 'weaknesses' I have experienced when living in the UK without an ID (I can share the view of my German and Maltese friends that also have come here on holiday and struggled on a few trivial things for the same reasons).

[Grunchtherunch]

i think allowing the government to have such easy access to our info is wrong, and it encourages the next generation of ID cards, they are talking about biometric tech, this combined with all the security cameras around, I'm not comfortable with someone being anle to find out exactly where i am whenever they like, I'm not a criminal. the argument - 'if you have nothing to hide then it shouldn't matter' is almost a less informed form of blackmail, just because i don't want to be found doesn't mean i have something to hide.
did anyone read the article posted on torrentfreak? a newspaper hired a 'computer expert' to test the current ID cards, they hacked it in 12 minutes with a Nokia mobile and a laptop, what does that say about how reliable the idea is?!

I think ID cards are a BAD idea, and the argument that says it would help prevent terrorism.. i think that is just shock tactics, i personally would rather take my chances that I'm going to be blown up by a suicide bomber (extremely unlikely) than have an ID card. I'm sure that may be different for others but;

maybe if we were given a choice between having one or not, i honestly have no idea what they hope to accomplish with the idea and my privacy is of utmost importance to me, my right not to be monitored is basically my right to freedom.

[Trakgalvis]

I do not want an ID card, as I do not think it would end there.

[rakiru]

everything grunchtherunch says is what I've been thinking...

I simply do not trust the government, who have lost so much information recently, to have all sorts of information about me that is completely unnecessary for me to be able to live my life, especially when my ID card would be so simple to hack into. As I've said before, I see no personal gain from this and think that we only have something to lose, as well as the large amount of our money that will be needed to implement this whole thing...

[mattd]

Regarding the hacking, was there ever any more information on that?

As I understand it the "hack" wasn't a genuine hack that would make these things impossible to detect - i.e. when read by a reader it would read the information correctly (i.e. read the "false" data), but it would also be able to detect that this information was not the original, correct information. From what I understand of asymmetric encryption and mutual-signing then this sounds plausible but would be good if anyone has any extra information?

[nez]

as far as i know, the card tells the scanner what to authenticate. This means that if you tell it not to do the security checks it want.

[Grunchtherunch]

im not entirely sure about what they did but here some more info i might have been wrong about it being on torrent freak but here
http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/08/06/uks-unhackable-national-id-card-hacked-in-12-minutes/

[themodernist]

Absolutely against it for all of the above reasons as well as the cost to US.

themodernist

[OJCorb]

The fact is, id cards would just be a titanic waste of money. The would serve literally no purpose other than letting the government spy on us. They wouldn't separate illegals from legal residents since the government will let anyone and there grandmother stay here. I halfway expect they will be handing them out in the streets trading them for drops of blood or hairs or something.

[Trakgalvis]

The fact is, id cards would just be a titanic waste of money. The would serve literally no purpose other than letting the government spy on us. They wouldn't separate illegals from legal residents since the government will let anyone and there grandmother stay here. I halfway expect they will be handing them out in the streets trading them for drops of blood or hairs or something.

It would be a total waste of time and money!

[ChoccyHobNob]

I don't have any objection to a national ID card in principal, it's the implementation and availability of the data that worries me.

If an ID card replaced my driving licence, passport, NI card, NHS card etc it would be very convenient but it should hold no info about me, it should just hold a unique identifier that links to a central DB so the info cannot be scraped from the card and the unique identifier should be very well encrypted.

NO external organisations should have access to my data or identifier, the thought of things like life insurance companies hiking up the cost of my policy or refusing to insure me because I have a family history of heart disease or government monitoring me because of other members of my families political affiliations for example fills me with dread.

[M2Ys4U]

I don't have any objection to a national ID card in principal, it's the implementation and availability of the data that worries me.

If an ID card replaced my driving licence, passport, NI card, NHS card etc it would be very convenient but it should hold no info about me, it should just hold a unique identifier that links to a central DB so the info cannot be scraped from the card and the unique identifier should be very well encrypted.

NO external organisations should have access to my data or identifier, the thought of things like life insurance companies hiking up the cost of my policy or refusing to insure me because I have a family history of heart disease or government monitoring me because of other members of my families political affiliations for example fills me with dread.

^ this.

[robriley]

I am totally against them.

There are several arguements against them but the main for me is that they are too risky, it's too much information in one place, making it a prime target for ID thiefs.

Whatever practices put in place to stop that happening will no work, a way around them will always be found.