Web Team/Minutes/31st March 2011
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This was the first meeting of the newly reformed web team, held on our IRC channel, #PPUKWebTeam
Attending
- Tempest3k (Phil - Web Team Leader)
- Borgs8472 (Chris - Web Team)
- tuoni (Ed - Web Team)
Logs from the Web Team Meeting of 31st March, 2011
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> ok, here's the agenda in case you haven't seen it:
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> Introductions
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> Web Team Leader Role
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> Current Status
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> Discussion of short term tasks & responsibilities
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> Meeting Schedule
[19:06] <&Tempest3K> AOB
[19:06] <+Borgs8472> sure
[19:07] <&Tempest3K> I'll start the introductions then :)
[19:07] <%tuoni> go for it
[19:08] <&Tempest3K> I'm Phil, acting Web Team leader as of about 10 days ago. I currently work as an onsite coordinator for a mobile telecoms company
[19:08] <&Tempest3K> ok, Borgs8472?
[19:09] <+Borgs8472> sure..
[19:09] <+Borgs8472> ed knows me pretty well
[19:09] <+Borgs8472> I am a systems administrator / systems integration engineer
[19:09] <%tuoni> oh yeah, baby ;)
[19:09] <&Tempest3K> What's your speciality?
[19:10] <+Borgs8472> I work with a very wide variety of technical assets
[19:10] <+Borgs8472> including legacy / unknowned assets
[19:10] <+Borgs8472> server side, my strongest area is IIS web application hosting
[19:10] <&Tempest3K> ok, cool
[19:11] <+Borgs8472> but I do all kinds of technical coordination surrounding release processes, consultation and making things work
[19:11] <&Tempest3K> ok, good to know :)
[19:11] <&Tempest3K> Tuoni?
[19:11] <%tuoni> well, Chris knows me fairly well
[19:11] <%tuoni> I'm a recovering programmer
[19:12] * +Borgs8472 pats ed on back
[19:12] <%tuoni> I was one of the ~8 guys who wrote the mortgage software used by 98% of the mortgage market in the UK
[19:12] <&Tempest3K> Aah, so you're the one a load of my friends cuss then
[19:12] <&Tempest3K> :p
[19:13] <%tuoni> I have written some fancy plugins which are now used world-wide by Europe's largest playground company
[19:14] <%tuoni> went and got a BSc (Hons) in turning shit off and on again and was dismayed to find that I knew more going in than many who graduated, so left programming and now work as a trader
[19:14] <+Borgs8472> unattended child finder app?
[19:14] <+Borgs8472> ba doom cha
[19:14] <&Tempest3K> :)
[19:14] <%tuoni> why, you interested, Chris/
[19:14] <%tuoni> ?
[19:14] <+Borgs8472> the apple store would approve it I bet
[19:14] <&Tempest3K> urgh apple
[19:14] * &Tempest3K saves rants for later
[19:15] <+Borgs8472> tempest, are you aware of my pirate party views?
[19:15] <%tuoni> Tempest3K: don't get him started >_<
[19:15] <+Borgs8472> not the time?
[19:15] * %tuoni cowers
[19:15] <&Tempest3K> I've read a number of your forum posts, so might have an idea ;)
[19:16] <&Tempest3K> I think we can cover views as we go along and work together
[19:16] <+Borgs8472> to summarise, I consider myself as having a very good understanding of the internet due to the numbers of websites I run and b2b processes I'm involved in, which puts me at odds with many of the open source advocates of which there are many
[19:17] <&Tempest3K> The world would be boring if we all agreed on stuff
[19:18] <%tuoni> that's why I'm tempted to defect to the greens
[19:18] <+Borgs8472> well... I wish there was more agreement within the party personally
[19:18] <&Tempest3K> debate makes life interesting, I expect to have a few as we develop
[19:18] <%tuoni> I don't agree with a single fucking thing with the greens
[19:18] <+Borgs8472> you'd never defect to the greens wtf
[19:18] <+Borgs8472> but I consider this relevant, let you tell me why
[19:19] <+Borgs8472> many of the open source advocates within the party think that our technical processes should be dealt with in a way similar to open source projects
[19:19] <&Tempest3K> we have processes?
[19:19] <%tuoni> xD
[19:20] <+Borgs8472> I've heard talk of developing the site via a public GIT repository, sorting out server hosting via member hosting pools, not to mention the crowdsourcing of every single amend and procedure
[19:21] <&Tempest3K> aah, but we're good at talk
[19:21] <+Borgs8472> and I simply disagree with this approach for the administration of PPUK technical assets, it's an approach that had a few glorious months at site launch, then become a rod for our own backs
[19:21] <&Tempest3K> actions are often different :)
[19:22] <+Borgs8472> sorry, how about we do some agenda items?
[19:22] <&Tempest3K> well, I think you skipped to Current Status, because that would be relevant then lol
[19:22] <&Tempest3K> so lets jump back a sec to Web Team Leader role
[19:23] <+Borgs8472> anyhow, web team leader role, do you consider yourself the guy for the job, or just an interim guy?
[19:23] <&Tempest3K> As you know, Leonard had to step down on short notice and the NEC asked me to step in, as I was his deputy
[19:24] <+Borgs8472> k
[19:24] <&Tempest3K> I've agreed with the NEC that I will cover the role until after the election season and then discuss the longer term
[19:24] <+Borgs8472> can you explain what you know about the Leonard situation?
[19:24] <+Borgs8472> I know it's mostly historical
[19:25] <+Borgs8472> if you want to post about it another time you can alternatively
[19:25] <&Tempest3K> I can't go into details, but I can say it's down to illness in immediate family
[19:26] <+Borgs8472> okay, but I didn't mean that
[19:26] <+Borgs8472> why he took the position then didn't do anything for about 2 months
[19:26] <&Tempest3K> aah
[19:26] <&Tempest3K> well, have you tried wrestling information out of anyone here at PPUK?
[19:27] <%tuoni> since I joined.
[19:27] <&Tempest3K> it's a very slow process
[19:27] <+Borgs8472> as his deputy, I'd expect you to know about this
[19:28] <&Tempest3K> It took 6 weeks for us to get agreement for access to the VPS for example
[19:28] <+Borgs8472> I resigned after failing to get information out of Tom as you might know
[19:28] <%tuoni> Borgs8472: I believe the correct term is "ragequit"
[19:28] <&Tempest3K> well, we'll cover the issues with that a little later
[19:28] <+Borgs8472> ish :p
[19:28] <%tuoni> ...alternatively known as "doing an Andrew Tindall"
[19:28] <+Borgs8472> okay
[19:28] <&Tempest3K> back to my role
[19:28] <+Borgs8472> so on topic, you are taking the role as an intermediate position?
[19:29] <%tuoni> so how do you see your role as benevolent leader of our rag-tag bunch?
[19:29] <+Borgs8472> I would accept evil overlord
[19:29] <&Tempest3K> My role is primarily that of an administrator - something I think Borgs actually suggested a while ago
[19:29] <+Borgs8472> or indifferent tyrant
[19:29] <%tuoni> I wouldn't - I'd then be forced to be the good-guy superhero
[19:30] <&Tempest3K> I'll be making sure that anything required is logged and picked up in a timely manner
[19:30] <%tuoni> and I'm faaaaaaaar too lazy for that shit
[19:30] <%tuoni> Tempest3K: OK, that's good to hear
[19:30] <+Borgs8472> k, administrator/manager/CTO is what I consider, though CTO treads on policy so likely not that
[19:30] <&Tempest3K> I'll also be in charge of making sure you guys get what you need to do the job
[19:31] <&Tempest3K> and making sure the NEC/Board are realistic in their demands
[19:31] * %tuoni gives a thumbs-up
[19:31] <&Tempest3K> Now, if you think there is anything else that should be in there, speak now or forever hold your peace ;)
[19:32] <%tuoni> no, I'm pretty happy about that
[19:32] <+Borgs8472> doesn't have to be right now, but could you do a response to this at some point? http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2929&start=0
[19:32] <%tuoni> are you going to make sure people do the shit they've said they will?
[19:32] <&Tempest3K> yep, will be happy to
[19:32] <&Tempest3K> tuoni - the problem with volunteers is you can't MAKE them do anything
[19:33] <+Borgs8472> we can't be having fire&forget style task management
[19:33] <&Tempest3K> but, if people don't, I will give them shit and if needs be reassign stuff
[19:33] <%tuoni> I realise this - what I mean is that if people are showing no progress, reassign tasks
[19:33] <&Tempest3K> yep - I need to pin graeme down and find out what the problem was he had with getting mantis live actually
[19:33] <%tuoni> eventually whittle down the web team (which seems to be the new "in thing") to a group of people who actually do stuff
[19:33] <+Borgs8472> agreed, and not after a month, after a week for instance
[19:33] * &Tempest3K adds as task one
[19:33] <&Tempest3K> :)
[19:34] <&Tempest3K> keep an eye on posts for the next couple of weeks with regard to whittling tuoni
[19:34] <%tuoni> it seems to me that many have been all too happy to have an orangey-gold username
[19:34] <%tuoni> :-o
[19:35] <&Tempest3K> ok, we'll move on to current status now
[19:35] <%tuoni> oh, you don't mean whittling ME
[19:35] <+Borgs8472> I'm happy to be forum admin again btw
[19:35] * %tuoni wipes his brow
[19:35] <+Borgs8472> and manage title-creep
[19:35] <&Tempest3K> After a few interesting discussions with the NEC (and Leonard before he left)
[19:36] <&Tempest3K> I'm fuming about the current state we're in
[19:36] <+Borgs8472> been there, done that :)
[19:36] <&Tempest3K> There is little to no documentation of our current setup
[19:36] <&Tempest3K> so if you have anything historical Borgs8472, we could use it
[19:36] <%tuoni> if needs be, I'm prepared to spend some time and work out the code
[19:36] <&Tempest3K> good, will come to that shortly :)
[19:36] <+Borgs8472> also I got from Tom when I last spoke with him in September was that it's a highly customised Django CMS
[19:37] <&Tempest3K> The current agreement I have with the NEC
[19:37] <%tuoni> yes
[19:37] <+Borgs8472> as far as I'm concerned it's a big ball of mud
[19:37] <&Tempest3K> is to try and maintain the current site and make critical changes where possible, until after the election season
[19:37] <&Tempest3K> in the meantime, we need to carry out a full assessment of what can be saved
[19:38] <+Borgs8472> I think someone like Ed needs to assess the code base and work out if it can be salvaged, vs writing functional spec based on behaviour and planning a rebuild
[19:38] <&Tempest3K> ready for producing a new site on a new server
[19:38] <&Tempest3K> this way we can work and test the new setup in it's permanent home
[19:38] <+Borgs8472> okay
[19:38] <&Tempest3K> while ensuring we get through the critical months of April/May intact
[19:38] <+Borgs8472> such a project shouldn't be taken likely
[19:39] <&Tempest3K> I'm looking at probably 6 months minimum for the new setup
[19:39] <+Borgs8472> I say a technical assessment should come first though
[19:39] <&Tempest3K> agreed
[19:39] <&Tempest3K> so, we're moving into short term assignments :)
[19:39] <+Borgs8472> so rather planning the rebuild, let's just plan the assessment yes
[19:40] <&Tempest3K> Borgs8472 - has Miah got a DPA form from you?
[19:40] <+Borgs8472> no
[19:40] <+Borgs8472> I don't have any official title so it wasn't requested
[19:40] <+Borgs8472> I mean I'll do it sure
[19:40] <+Borgs8472> get it over to me
[19:40] <&Tempest3K> ok, I'll be sending you both a DPA form tomorrow
[19:40] <%tuoni> OK
[19:41] <+Borgs8472> btw tempest I expect you to note most actions from this
[19:41] <&Tempest3K> because if you get site access, you get access to internal databases :s
[19:41] <+Borgs8472> sure
[19:41] <%tuoni> that's fine
[19:41] <&Tempest3K> I'm logging the meeting Borgs8472 so I can do that ;)
[19:41] <+Borgs8472> do you have technical root access to the box btw?
[19:42] <&Tempest3K> yes - the box itself needs auditing to see what's in place and who has access to which services
[19:43] <+Borgs8472> do you have short term plans for handing out access to live? also do we have a staging box or not? tom had one..
[19:44] <&Tempest3K> no staging box atm, I'll be investigating a new server so we may be able to use that as a sandbox for a time
[19:44] <+Borgs8472> k
[19:44] <+Borgs8472> I think a high priority task could be to get the setup working on the staging box, as it'll be a discovary task unto itself
[19:45] <&Tempest3K> agreed
[19:45] <%tuoni> sounds good to me
[19:45] <&Tempest3K> My initial thoughts are to get you guys approved for access by Miah (DPA forms)
[19:46] <&Tempest3K> then get you access to the server Borgs8472 and ensure we have a full backup
[19:46] <+Borgs8472> I could do that in terms of web app config, however would have to have a preconfigured linux box with apache and mysql (or a cpanel!) to do the install as I don't have strong Linux sysadmin skills
[19:46] <&Tempest3K> then we can start investigating and documenting the setup
[19:46] <+Borgs8472> the new hosting box you get, can you get it with cpanel or similar?
[19:46] <&Tempest3K> I'm familiar with cpanel myself, so will look into that
[19:47] <+Borgs8472> hurrah
[19:47] <+Borgs8472> so, you're speccing that new box, has the party agreed to pay for it?
[19:47] <&Tempest3K> I may install webmin on the current box once we have a backup, so we have something more user friendly for the interim
[19:47] <&Tempest3K> I've got to take a proposal to the NEC, but they agree the current setup needs replacing
[19:47] <&Tempest3K> so don't see an issue
[19:48] <+Borgs8472> okay, that task's with you then?
[19:48] <&Tempest3K> aye, it's an admin job :)
[19:48] <&Tempest3K> I am open to suggestions however
[19:48] <&Tempest3K> tuoni
[19:49] <%tuoni> Tempest3K
[19:49] <&Tempest3K> what access do you need to start looking through the main site, just admin panel and ftp?
[19:49] <%tuoni> I already have some elements of the admin panel
[19:49] <%tuoni> but to look through the code I'd need FTP to grab it
[19:49] <&Tempest3K> guessing you might need access to the db server as well?
[19:49] <+Borgs8472> personally I'll take a code and database dump, I'd rather not touch live
[19:50] <%tuoni> yes and no
[19:50] <%tuoni> I'd only need a diagram of the db
[19:50] <&Tempest3K> Borgs8472 - I'm thinking about managing some of the current site elements initially to handle election requests
[19:50] <%tuoni> but
[19:50] <%tuoni> it would be easier to work off a full dump of the db
[19:50] <+Borgs8472> the db will be django + a bunch of custom tables
[19:50] <%tuoni> but I'd only need the structure, I'm not too fussed about actual data
[19:50] <&Tempest3K> I'd clone it to another server for disecting lol
[19:51] <+Borgs8472> ideally one would backup the database, restore it elsewere, find the personal identifiable information columns and run a couple of queries to blank them then dish to all and sundry
[19:52] <%tuoni> also: as time progresses I have every intention of making a virtual clone of the server so I can work locally off an identical setup
[19:52] <&Tempest3K> might be an option, will note that to look at once we have the initial stumbling blocks out the way
[19:52] <&Tempest3K> ok, will talk to Miah about that to ensure we don't have a DPA issue
[19:53] <+Borgs8472> given the site AFAIK is running apache + mysql, a true clone environment should not be needed
[19:53] <&Tempest3K> should be fine once the paperworks signed tho
[19:53] <+Borgs8472> only when you chuck extra custom services and configurations do you need whole server clones
[19:53] <%tuoni> true
[19:53] <&Tempest3K> This is why we need to get a check done of the current server install
[19:54] <&Tempest3K> as we don't have a linux expert here, I'll look into someone who might be able to do it
[19:54] <%tuoni> well this machine's set up for LAMP dev and already has python installed anyway
[19:54] <&Tempest3K> ok, cool
[19:54] <&Tempest3K> so, we have some actions that can cover a week or two :)
[19:55] <&Tempest3K> I know everyone is eager to get stuck in, but I'd rather go slow and steady, making sure we cover all the bases
[19:55] <%tuoni> yes
[19:55] <%tuoni> well, chuck me the DPA form and an SFTP login and I'll grab the site ASAP
[19:55] <&Tempest3K> kk, will sort those on the weekend
[19:56] <%tuoni> but I have another project which is even more pressing on my time so I'll have to work out a time split between the two
[19:56] <&Tempest3K> will need to pin Miah down tomorrow
[19:56] <&Tempest3K> np tuoni, any help is good atm
[19:56] <&Tempest3K> Have you guys both got email address on the forum I can send the forms too?
[19:56] <%tuoni> borgsisbeautiful@tuoni.co.uk
[19:56] <+Borgs8472> <_<
[19:57] <&Tempest3K> lol
[19:57] <+Borgs8472> I can't believe you're doing this over IRC now
[19:57] <%tuoni> xD
[19:57] <&Tempest3K> ok, moving swiftly on....
[19:57] * %tuoni starts playing with Borgs8472's earlobe
[19:57] <+Borgs8472> my email is listed on the contact details thread
[19:57] <+Borgs8472> borgs8472@yahoo.co.uk
[19:57] <&Tempest3K> Meeting Schedule
[19:57] <%tuoni> xD
[19:57] <&Tempest3K> seeing as there is only 3 of us here
[19:57] * +Borgs8472 dies a little more inside
[19:58] <&Tempest3K> does this time work for you guys, once a fortnight?
[19:58] <%tuoni> Borgs8472: it'll continue until you sort me out :P
[19:58] <%tuoni> yeah, this works for me
[19:58] <+Borgs8472> it does theorectically
[19:58] <+Borgs8472> as I can make it from work or home
[19:58] <+Borgs8472> I will have to aim not to be commuting at this time is all
[19:59] <&Tempest3K> ok, cool - other half is out until 9pm on Thurs so I have peace to do this :)
[19:59] <+Borgs8472> btw PPUK needs a calader system
[19:59] <&Tempest3K> one thing at a time :)
[20:00] <&Tempest3K> ok, next meeting will be on April 14th at 1900
[20:00] <&Tempest3K> I'll log it on forums tomorrow along with the tasks list from tonight
[20:00] <+Borgs8472> are we on to short term responsibilities yet?
[20:01] <&Tempest3K> I kinda tied those in with the tasks for the next couple of weeks
[20:01] <+Borgs8472> also if convenient and there are only a few people, can we skype next time?
[20:01] <&Tempest3K> then we can assign more detailed roles in next meeting when we have a feel for the site situation
[20:01] <&Tempest3K> aye, that's possible providing everyone able to attend can get on
[20:01] <+Borgs8472> so no forum admin still?
[20:02] <&Tempest3K> forum admin is Monkeyjam and myself atm
[20:02] <+Borgs8472> I'm hoping for a forum admin who actually does stuff
[20:02] <+Borgs8472> rather than wait for stuff to clean up
[20:02] <+Borgs8472> as that's a moderator's job
[20:03] <&Tempest3K> That's me for the next couple of weeks - I know you've offered but I need you more on the server side atm
[20:03] <&Tempest3K> as I can't do that
[20:03] <+Borgs8472> okay
[20:03] <+Borgs8472> I ran a political discussion forum for 3 years
[20:03] <+Borgs8472> I know my forums very well
[20:04] <&Tempest3K> :)
[20:04] <&Tempest3K> ok, AOB?
[20:04] <+Borgs8472> but sure
[20:04] <+Borgs8472> well...
[20:04] <%tuoni> uh-oh
[20:04] <&Tempest3K> gah, it's suddenly got dark
[20:04] <+Borgs8472> what are we going to to about webteam-in-name-only people?
[20:04] * &Tempest3K looks for the light switch
[20:05] <&Tempest3K> I'll be posting up in the forum about my concerns
[20:05] <+Borgs8472> okay
[20:05] <&Tempest3K> give them a chance to come forward and attend the next meeting
[20:05] <&Tempest3K> anyone who doesn't get in touch is chopped
[20:05] <+Borgs8472> ppuk has a problem with too many inactive officials, given the appearance of things being done, which stops actual things being done
[20:06] <&Tempest3K> that'll give them about a fortnight in case people are on holiday etc
[20:06] <+Borgs8472> k
[20:06] <&Tempest3K> seeing as we have been semi inactive
[20:06] <+Borgs8472> btw in the short term, I need to promote the conference videos on the youtube channel
[20:07] <+Borgs8472> can to contact graeme and get him to email / tweet it at least once
[20:07] <&Tempest3K> Email me the info and I'll bring it up at NEC Monday
[20:08] <+Borgs8472> this is the info: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3073&start=40#p26993
[20:08] <+Borgs8472> I don't have promotional copy or anything
[20:08] <&Tempest3K> added to my notes for that meeting
[20:09] <+Borgs8472> k
[20:09] <&Tempest3K> any more for any more?
[20:09] <+Borgs8472> I don't think it needs to wait until Monday, but if that's your preference
[20:09] <%tuoni> don't think so
[20:09] <&Tempest3K> well, he generally makes those meetings so it's easier :)
[20:10] <&Tempest3K> if it's urgent I can email
[20:10] <+Borgs8472> well I should have escalted this a week ago, but I didn't want to send it to graeme myself
[20:10] <&Tempest3K> kk, I'll try and mail him later tonight or tomorrow
[20:10] <&Tempest3K> :)
[20:11] <&Tempest3K> If that's all, then thanks for taking the time out to be here tonight
[20:11] <+Borgs8472> also, when will you be taking input from stakeholders outside of the webteam?
[20:11] <&Tempest3K> and keep an eye on your email for those forms :)
[20:11] <%tuoni> not a problem
[20:11] <%tuoni> shall do
[20:11] <&Tempest3K> After our next meeting Borgs8472
[20:11] <%tuoni> o/
[20:11] <+Borgs8472> e.g. communications, press
[20:11] <+Borgs8472> okay
[20:12] <&Tempest3K> once we've got a handle on the setup
[20:12] <&Tempest3K> :)
[20:12] <+Borgs8472> I will be making a couple more forum posts
[20:12] <&Tempest3K> cool
[20:12] <+Borgs8472> webteam /= website
[20:12] <+Borgs8472> anyhow, I suppose that is all
[20:13] <&Tempest3K> hopefully we'll have you working after the weekend guys :)
Action Points Arising
- Response to : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2929&start=0 - Tempest3K
- Check progress with Mantis with glambert - Tempest3K
- Begin Website Codebase Analysis (ongoing project) - tuoni
- New Hosting - Tempest3K with input from NEC and Borgs8472
- Extend VPS Hosting - mace (already in progress after discussion with Tempest3K)
- Audit services on current server and begin planning for migration to new server - Borgs8472
- DPA forms for tuoni and Borgs prior to granting access for above - Tempest3K/Mace (currently with mace)
- Youtube conference videos promotion - glambert via Tempest3K (in progress)
- Next meeting is 14th April, 2011.